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Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

Sorry for being dead, but I managed to get someone to bring the internet to my tomb.

Dunno if I'll be modding again any time soon, though.

Anyway, I DID have a few random ideas pop into my head, but I'm too lazy to actually act on any of them.

-- Unit Inventory system.

The idea: What if individual units had inventories? Like in an RPG or Deus Ex or something? What if they could get new weapons off dead enemies? What if they could pick up, say, a med-kit or something, and store it until they need to use it or drop it for a unit that needs it more then they do?

The cool things: Self-explanatory!

The problems: What would you actually PUT in the inventory? And, how could you get it to work properly? Would all units have inventory slots? If so, how many? Would this slow down what is otherwise a realatively fast-paced game? Would you restrict this to hero units in that case? What about vehicles, do they get inventory slots? What items would a unit even drop upon death? Could this lead to players blowing up thier own units to get items? Would you really be that willing to add a drop and inventory system into the game? How would that even be possible? How would you get them to be able to drop a single item or use it?

-- "Complimentary" Units

The idea: Basically, a special version of an existing unit. Like a Ranger able to fire EMP Patriot Missiles, or a Humvee with Colonel Burton's gun for him to drive everywhere, or a fully-automatic Sniping Technical for Jarmen Kell to cruise around in.

The cool things: Try to guess.

The problems: Taking the time to make every unit, putting their display names in the .csf thingy, etc. Also, would these only be hidden in certain missions or would they be buildable? If they were trainable, could this cause a faction or two to be overpowered slightly?

Edited by user 11 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

Here's a couple upgrade ideas, too:

Electrostatic Discharge
Faction: USA (Superweapons?) or China Tank General

All explosives deal EMP damage, increasing their usefullness against aircraft and tanks. Colonel Burton also deals EMP damage (for USA obviously).

Building Thumper
Faction: Dunno

All buildings generate a shockwave, scattering infantry and tripping up vehicles, greatly reducing the chances of a building capture.

Vengeance
Faction: A GLA faction?

When damaged by an enemy, the attacked unit's weapon becomes 25% stronger for a limited time

Edited by user 11 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

UTD^Force
71.25% (Friendly)
Colonel

11 years ago

Cool ideas!
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A Muslim, ask me anything about Islam if you want
UTD^Force
Moderator and former map reviewer
Big fan of C&C Labs

Rrtaya_tsamsiyu
50.25% (Neutral)
Colonel

11 years ago

Inventory; Not sure exactly how you could do that, lol. It would probably be infantry only i think, because vehicles already have garrison slots.

Maybe you could make objects that have a locomoter, with 0 speed and 0 turning. Then, with bike logic, add one garrison slot to each infantry. Here's where the useless object locomoter comes in; order the object to enter the infantry, then order the infantry to go to the object. Your packs could represent different infantry, like RPG Trooper, Rebel, ect. These would also come with the infantry, they would be indestructible, and you would need to make them die after a certain amount of time so the battlefield doesn't become covered in them. If there's a way to allow command of enemy and neutral stuff, then you could make the packs generic, and thus allow other sides to switch their infantry type by picking up enemy packs.

Complimentary Units;
If its a special version of each unit, i would make it to where you can only build one of each. Same if its one special vehicle per hero unit. Wouldn't really be too bad to implement, just clone something, add a weapon and its build button stuffs, and an entry into your CSF/STR. If you added one for each unit you might have to make an extra command set for some production buildings though.

Electrostatic Discharge; if its for all explosives, i probably wouldn't make it an area of effect or disabling weapon, would be way overpowered then. i would make it slow the firing rate of whatever it hits for a short time.

Building Thumper; lol, interesting. Would make capturing almost uselss, unless it had a long reload time. But then again, capturing is almost never used in multiplayer/skirmish, so it wouldn't be overpowered. Would be useful if it had enough range to effect attacking vehicles, and it could also have an emp-style disabling effect [without any emp fx, just with the shockwave].

Vengeance; i like it. i don't know how this would work though. Maybe you could just make the units increase their firing rate, like the gatling cannon does? That wouldn't really be what you're looking for though.

And hey, with these three you could implement them all in order to balance each other out; ED for all American factions, BT for China, and V for the GLA. The two ideas in the first post could be given to all sides.

one soul at a time

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

Hmm... Bike Logic, eh? That;s actually quite clever. 😎 The thing is like you said, if I did it that way I would want to make sure the items wouldn't stay tied to a particular player. But I don't know how you would be able to "order" the item to "garrison" the infantry if it was neutral.

Another thing is that I have never done anything with bike logic yet. So this would be a mega-challenge for me (and probably any other modder, still).

I think if vehicles would get an inventory then it only would be for ones that don't have any transport slots, like a Crusader or something. But then I think you'd might end up with somethiing like a Pilot getting put into an inventory slot.

Y'know, Unit Inventory added to the game could be it's own entire mod in itself. Provided you'd added unit item drops and enough usefull stuff, you could prolly add a lot to the game with just this one feature.

It'd take a massive amount of work, though...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Complimentary Units;
If its a special version of each unit, i would make it to where you can only build one of each. Same if its one special vehicle per hero unit. Wouldn't really be too bad to implement, just clone something, add a weapon and its build button stuffs, and an entry into your CSF/STR. If you added one for each unit you might have to make an extra command set for some production buildings though.

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

I'm already working on Jarmen Kell's Technical. :P

Complimentary Units ar probably something I'll just pop out in 5 minutes when I get bored.

I have Colonel Burton's Humvee planned out and General Granger's Specter Gunship, and maybe Black Lotus' Van, too....

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Electrostatic Discharge; if its for all explosives, i probably wouldn't make it an area of effect or disabling weapon, would be way overpowered then. i would make it slow the firing rate of whatever it hits for a short time.

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

I've decided what I'd do for Eletrostatic Discharge.

"All tank shells will be charged with EMP."

See? I think that'd work and make his tanks much more useful (and help balance out the lack of artillery/long-range units).

Also, maybe give the shells a nice blue tracer?

Building Thumper; lol, interesting. Would make capturing almost uselss, unless it had a long reload time. But then again, capturing is almost never used in multiplayer/skirmish, so it wouldn't be overpowered. Would be useful if it had enough range to effect attacking vehicles, and it could also have an emp-style disabling effect [without any emp fx, just with the shockwave].

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

Hmm... The EMP thing would be quite usefull. Maybe it also does damage you could end up with a rave of vehicles getting shut down and slowly killed off because they're ignoring the building they're passing by...

Vengeance; i like it. i don't know how this would work though. Maybe you could just make the units increase their firing rate, like the gatling cannon does? That wouldn't really be what you're looking for though.

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

Yeah, I don't know how I'd get this one to work either. Cool idea I guess, but I don't think it's possible to implement. :ashamed:

Reminds me of a conversation I had with JoshZemlinsky about adding Matrix-style bullet-dodging to a unit. 😂 lol, good times.

And hey, with these three you could implement them all in order to balance each other out; ED for all American factions, BT for China, and V for the GLA. The two ideas in the first post could be given to all sides.

Originally Posted by: Rrtaya_tsamsiyu

Hmm... Building Thumper for all China factions seems like it'd work out well.

I dunno how i'd get the thumper to work, though. Would it be a weapon? How would I get it to constantly go off periodically? 😕

Man, I really should start modding ZH again!

But I also wanna try modding Deus Ex!

Aaaagh! :banghead: (lol)

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

I'm totally gunna draw some icons up for these upgrades... Heh...

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

Rrtaya_tsamsiyu
50.25% (Neutral)
Colonel

11 years ago

i think you could make the thumper by combining the emp disable effect from the emp patriot [with wider effect], and the visual fx from maybe a nuke or something. You would have to make it to where it didn't effect allies in order for it to be useful, and i would probably make it fired via button.

one soul at a time

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

Well I've only drawn the Eletrostatic Discharge cameo, but here it is:

Anyway, that might be a good idea but I actually was thinking now that I should see what the Microwave Tank does for it's heat field thing...

The nuke's own shockwave effect would work perfectly for this provided I can shrink it down a bit like you said.

Dunno about the firing it from a button, though. Unless maybe that'd toggle it on/off, but I dunno why you'd you wanna turn the thing OFF in that case. Maybe it takes up Power somehow?
😄

I also came up with a new idea! How's this?

Fragmentary Rounds

Cost: 2000

Side: GLA Demolitions General

Causes shots from ballistic (bullet-firing) weapons to explode on impact, inflicting radius damage. Also gives bullets a nice orange pulse tracer.

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: Gameanater

Ah dang it, I forgot to say that'd I'd make Eletrostatic Discharge an upgrade for the China Tank General...

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#10

Well here's what I'm working on:

Hero Vehicles and Complimentary Units

So far I got Jarmen Kell's Technical done and am working on Colonel Burton's Humvee. Next up I'm doing Black Lotus' Van or Outpost. Maybe make her vehicle able to deploy into a full structure, that'd be cool.

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

Rrtaya_tsamsiyu
50.25% (Neutral)
Colonel

11 years ago

#11

hmm, the building idea sounds cool. Could do something along the lines of providing targeting assistance or something, like a ground version of an AWACS aircraft

one soul at a time

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#12

Targeting assistance? Like an Avenger, you mean? Not sure about that, but a nice idea I suppose. 😛

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Rrtaya_tsamsiyu
50.25% (Neutral)
Colonel

11 years ago

#13

Well it's actual function would be to increase firing rates or something, but you could just say in a description or something that it provides assistance.

one soul at a time

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#14

Maybe, I dunno.

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CaeDares
50.25% (Neutral)
Captain

11 years ago

#15

Having only started at this modding business, I can't really say I can help with this at all, but I can say that I fully support this.
At one viewpoint it's as if you're making a completely different game, but at the same time your not. At another viewpoint, there's so many things to consider and if all of that isn't taken into consideration it could completely unbalance the game.
Say you do all this for the Zero Hour expansion. You go against Dr. Thrax and one of the options you get is that you get to equip your soldiers with is a resistance to his "Thrax", thus completely ridding the point of "Dr. Thrax"(Especially if you're USA and you're also allowed the Chem Suits upgrade) and the entire challenge, and the same thing could be said if you're going against someone with the same game modifications and they prefer one thing but you're able to completely resist it or what you load onto your units will completely overpower that person compared to what they prefer to load onto theirs.

It's just my 10 cents, again, I haven't exactly been at this for very long, so you'll most likely have some sort of theory already in mind to keep this kind of thing balanced.

I do love the idea of each Hero having their own vehicle though, especially the Lotus Outpost vehicle. Sounds fancy.
Either way, good luck at it.

Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.

I may not be available between November 22nd and December 4th due to travelling. If you require my assistance, please Private Message me

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#16

Keeping stuff balanced isn't too difficult, but I have made some overly-powerful crap in the past. Like upgrading General Fai from a stripped-down version of the vanilla Chinese to a having a INSANELY powerful line up of dudes.

You can't play with another person without mods if you have a modded game. You'll get mismatch errors if you do.

Dr. Thrax's stuff still does massive damage to Chem-Suited USA guys, especially with Anthrax Gamma.

Yeah, I really want to get that Lotus Van thing up. I think it'd be the best Hero Vehicle.

Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.

CaeDares
50.25% (Neutral)
Captain

11 years ago

#17

I love playing General Fai as it is. Don't know why, maybe I just like the picture of asian people in red(Green in my case) carrying around mini guns and annihilating everything from the ground to the sky. I beat Prince Kassad with only the Red Guards (And some damn heavy defense building) just this morning.

Well, that's what I mentioned I believe, not sure if I worded it the wrong way or not, but it could be unfair if you are playing with someone who has the same mod.

I understand Dr. Thrax being strong as it is, but it was just an example I suppose. It could go for General Fai too. If you decide to play against any GLA and they launch a scud but your units have a good resistance to it, (Even though SCUD is probably the most obnoxious Super Weapon in the game) then there's just about no point in the toxin the SCUD leaves, which is, in my experience, to kill off any stragglers and do a bit extra damage to buildings.
I guess that kind of thing could be balanced, though. If you're GLA and they counter your Toxin abilities, then that just means you could enhance your military power and annihilate them. If they make a sudden defensive switch against your military then your SCUD is all good to go again.

The Van sounds pretty sweet, but you also have to come up with a reason for it to be there. If the outpost is just sitting there then it also means that Lotus is a sitting duck.
Is Super Lotus (General Fai's version of Black Lotus) going to have better things when it comes to the Outpost or will the outpost be the same as the original lotus outpost?
So many questions!!

Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.

I may not be available between November 22nd and December 4th due to travelling. If you require my assistance, please Private Message me

Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#18

Originally Posted by: CaeDares

Blue in my case. :P

Or purple. I love purple.

Maybe, but think about this...

Where the heck is Fai's sniper unit? Or why is there hardly a difference between Super and regular Lotus? And why aren't the Mini-Gunners trained two at a time?

That's my beefs with Fai, at least.

Well, that's what I mentioned I believe, not sure if I worded it the wrong way or not, but it could be unfair if you are playing with someone who has the same mod.

Originally Posted by: CaeDares

Unless you've balanced it right. :P

I understand Dr. Thrax being strong as it is, but it was just an example I suppose. It could go for General Fai too. If you decide to play against any GLA and they launch a scud but your units have a good resistance to it, (Even though SCUD is probably the most obnoxious Super Weapon in the game) then there's just about no point in the toxin the SCUD leaves, which is, in my experience, to kill off any stragglers and do a bit extra damage to buildings.
I guess that kind of thing could be balanced, though. If you're GLA and they counter your Toxin abilities, then that just means you could enhance your military power and annihilate them. If they make a sudden defensive switch against your military then your SCUD is all good to go again.

Originally Posted by: CaeDares

Oh the SCUD-Bug... (Which was fixed.) lol

Yeah, the toxin I think is to kill off any stragglers and discourages travel through that area for a minute or so.

The Van sounds pretty sweet, but you also have to come up with a reason for it to be there. If the outpost is just sitting there then it also means that Lotus is a sitting duck.
Is Super Lotus (General Fai's version of Black Lotus) going to have better things when it comes to the Outpost or will the outpost be the same as the original lotus outpost?
So many questions!!

Originally Posted by: CaeDares

Well, I'm still trying to come up with a Super version for Fai of the Van, but Super Lotus herself is going to have some sort of wrist-mounted mini crossbow to defend herself with against infantry. Same thing for the Super Hackers (who, btw, will get a unique model).

Super/Black Lotus' Listening Outpost will be mobile, of course.

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Gameanater
55.5% (Neutral)
General Topic Starter

11 years ago

#19

Here, something along the lines of this:

http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Mini-crossbow

Edited by user 11 years ago | Reason: Added image

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CaeDares
50.25% (Neutral)
Captain

11 years ago

#20

Maybe, but think about this...
Where the heck is Fai's sniper unit? Or why is there hardly a difference between Super and regular Lotus? And why aren't the Mini-Gunners trained two at a time?

Gotta be honest with you, after completely beating Generals and Zero Hour, as well as having beaten all the challenges before, I completely hate how the Chinese seem like a pro-defense team. The only good tanks they have are the Battlemaster and Overlord, and while the Overlord does have neat add-ons to it, it still costs more than everything else. for decent firepower, even if you're playing as the tank general.. The infantry is just about the same as every other team as well.
Your airforce is also very limited, even though the GLA don't have an airforce at all, but that's not the point. They're the GLA. This is China. Even though I love the burn effect after a good 3-5 planes hit the same spot, I still hate how that's all you really get unless you have Helix's available, but they arn't exactly any tougher than your pretty little jets.
Even though Chinese is always my favored team, I always find myself building defensively, and only being able to launch a good attack later on in the game. In fact, most of the time I win just by selling all the buildings with Lotus.

Oh the SCUD-Bug... (Which was fixed.) lol

SCUD-Bug? My game has the latest patch, so could you explain?

The wrist-mounted mini crossbow is an amazing idea already. I hate how Lotus can't defend herself in any way possible, and bringing soldiers with her could be a dead giveaway to the fact that she's there.
I would probably make the Crossbow have a bit less firepower than the USA hero, seeing as he can instantly destroy any building and kick ass at the same time, Lotus should be able to do at least a bit less damage than him, but also be sneaky and able to capture buildings instead of destroying them.
Maybe Super Lotus building could be accessible to the Super Hackers? The closer this outpost is to the enemy HQ the more income you get via Hackers?

Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.

I may not be available between November 22nd and December 4th due to travelling. If you require my assistance, please Private Message me

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