This is a very fascinating conversation that has taken a few turns, and I have to say that both points are quite valid.

Honestly though I can't come up with much to counter AZH's argument, that the Rawkitvee can be produced early in-game and can only be effectly countered by later-game units or anouther Rawkitvee.

Edited by user Saturday, January 3, 2015 6:43:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Haha, that is actually a fairly good counter-point!

Now, given all this Rawkitvee talk, I['ve been inspired to come up with...

THE USA MISSILE GENERAL!

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Name: Marco Roving (A reference to Metal Slug, because all this rocket talk reminded me of Metal Slug's "RAWKIT LAWNCHAIR" quote)

Side: USA

Specialization: Missile-based weaponry

Features:
-- Flashbang for Rangers is replaced with a rocket launcher upgrade, which does the same damage as a standard GLA RPG Trooper's weapon and does not clear out buildings. Unit costs $100 more than the standard Ranger.
-- Missile Defenders are cheaper and ALWAYS fire with laser-targeting
-- Crusader Tank unavailable
-- Paladin Tank and the corresponding general's power is replaced with the Cavalier Tank, which fires missiles for both it's standard weaponry AND to defend against enemy missiles slightly. Can attack both ground and air. Costs the same.
-- Sentry Drone Gun upgrade attaches a rocket launcher.
-- Microwave Tank unavailable
-- Avenger does not provide targeting assistance, but instead fires missiles that are identical to Tank Hunter power and fire rate. Still uses laser attack against aircraft and enemy missiles
-- Patriot Missile System replaced by Presidental Missile System, which is twice as expensive but fires twice as much in one "clip"
-- Fire Base replaced by Missile Base, it fires Tomahawks
-- Humvees do not have a machine gun attached, but start with a TOW Missile
-- Only the Scout Drone and Hellfire Drones can be built, the Battle Drone is absent
-- Ambulance unavailable
-- Raptors are almost identical to King Raptors, but instead fire a huge amount of Missile Defender missiles and do not have laser defenses. They do not detect stealth units, either.
-- Comanches lose their machine gun in favor of a Missile Defender rocket launcher, but carry twice as much ammo for Rocket Pods and their secondary missiles
-- Aurora Bomber unavailable
-- Stealth Fighter unavailable
-- Strategy Center does not have Hold The Line strategy. Also, the Bombardment Strategy deploys a Tomahawk launcher
-- Tomahawks Launcher vehicles fire 2 Tomakawks at once
-- Particle Cannon is replaced by a Tomahawk Storm (similar to a GLA SCUD Storm)


Description: At first glance, Marco is outright overpowered. He can easily mow through tanks and aircraft with the sheer amount of missile output by his units, shredding enemy buildings as well.Bbut his biggest issue comes from the fact that he is almost exclusively missile-based, rendering him more vulnerable to infantry, and of course a large amount of enemy Avengers can still come at him and render almost his entire missile force useless. In addition, many of his units cost more, and using a Rawkitvee strategy with him actually has the slight problem with the fact that his Missile Defenders always take a second or so to start firing due to their laser-guidance weapons. He requires a very strong economy to use effectively, otherwise someone could just spam Avengers and back them up with tanks and render him powerless. he also has a complete inability to simply empty an enemy garrison without almost destroying it outright due to the lack of Flashbangs and Microwave Tanks.

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Hmm... Actually, now that I typed that all up, I think he's too powerful now...
Help, AZH? xD

Edited by user Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:31:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I'm a little confused when you say the rockvee can resist the MiGs, all it takes is 2 or 4 fire missiles to destroy one if I'm right, as Humvees have relatively low HP. And of course any other fighter jet can get the first shot at the rockvee as they are faster, have countermeasures, ect.

Rockvees seem to be best for ground assaults though, as you said, they can just get out of range of the tanks and still fire rockets upon them. That's the one problem though, you get them too close to an Overlord or a huge tank force, and it'll be toast in no time, meaning you have to keep maintaining it's distance, while the enemy could be flanking your base as of this moment...

The Rockvee: powerful, but tedious in my opinion.

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Also, what do you guys think of the Faction i made?

Edited by user Saturday, January 3, 2015 7:31:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Technically yes, but her humvees are too expensive; every penny counts in competitive play. Do remember that whilst the rockvees are using hit and run tactics on the opponent, China will often have a dragon tank flame walling her supplies, whereas the GLA will techterror them. This is a game of tactics, and the best defence is a good offence.


One MiG can't destroy a humvee. When you use a mig, it's sent on a suicide mission because the humvee is going to kill it. Two migs cost more than a rockvee (IIRC), so it's not cost effective. The only way they are cost effective is if you manage to damage multiple rockvees at once (they're usually used in groups).


I can't take it seriously because of this guy: http://www.mariowiki.com/Rawk_Hawk

It sounds like his car.

Take out the buff to the missile defender, and he'd be ok as a general. Your other changes seem reasonably balanced.

Super G, are you studying maths? Because I used to make posts like that when I was studying.

Edited by user Sunday, January 4, 2015 12:35:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Math, my friend, is an art. It is the canvas on which gaming has been delicately painting. I think you out of all people, understand profoundly the maths behind generals, ranging from the complex algorithms that govern AI behaviour to the simple figures that dictate the health, speed, and damage of each individual unit. The mathematics behind prices and cost efficiecy create the macro of the game, while the micro is determined by unit statistics. When combined, you achieve ultimatum. This applies for all such strategy games, and generals is no exception. The victor can be determined by a tedious equation, and most interestingly, the game theory can be applied in this sense.

I see what you mean by the rockvee's power, but do not you think base defense and trap placement early game can silence him?

And late game, I have played Commander Ned several times, and have observed that as you say, he is overreliant on tanks and launcher units, however in my humble opinion, you seem to overestimate the power of rocket infantry in veichles, despite it being a powerful tool. A balanced army is the best army no?

Oh and for the missle general, he seems to be a dynamic and balanced general, (really cool additions) however i just have two questions regarding him.
Does't the lack of garrison clearing make him too weak in a way? I mean if there is a city that would give him hell and the enemy a chance to turtle and hoarde avengers maybe?

Also, the presidential patriot missle is supposed to be a buff or a debuff to the original? Because at a double price, you added double missles, however what about the HP of that building. In order to maintain mathematical proportionilty, so it can be twice as powerful and twice as healthy, must you not double its HP? Otherwise, that PPM would just be an easier way to destroy two patriot missles stuffed in one.
In addition, when adding strengths to the general, it is best not to increase the price proportionally,otherwise the addition would be neutralized. Take Nuke general, his power income is multiplied by 1.8 per reactor, and the price by only 1.2, which means that one unit of power is cheaper for him than other generals from china.
Per missle however, the price of the presidential patriots is equal to that of the normal one, only less HP/$.

Edited by user Sunday, January 4, 2015 8:46:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

It would be a relatively interesting test. But I agree with you. The Tocvee will probably win.

Wow. That's deep.

(xD)



Possibly true.




Well, we could theoretically just blow the entire city up by relentlessly bombarding them with endless streams of missiles. That would work, right?


Is PPM short for Price Per Missile?

Well, it's a bit more more money for a far more powerful base defense. But I think I can see your point.



Well, the Nuke General's Aircraft is more expensive, but it can be upgraded to fire with a nuke bomb.

The Presidental Missile System costs twice as much for twice the firepower in a single defense building.

Okay, I tried going up against a "Hard" Tank General AI and spamming Rawkitvee's... And no matter what way I tried to hit-and-run with them, they got swashed every time.

So either I REALLY suck, or Rawkitvee's aren't overpowered.

I choose that you REALLY suck, jk xD
When I play multiplayer, we make the army be random, but if I take USA, I build a rockvee. And, mostly you win with that, although it's easy to destroy it without sending crusaders.
So, I send 4-6 crusaders to be in the front, in the middle, I add 3 rockvees, that should be enough to defeat someone.