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Offline MicScoTho  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:06:25 PM(UTC)
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This is straight from the news, but I think my opinion has slipped in:

Kane's Wrath Patch on the HorizonNearly 3 months after Kane's Wrath was shipped, it appears we almost have a first patch available for the C&C 3 expansion. APOC has posted an update about the patch on the Official Forums, detailing a number of exploit fixes and balance changes. If all goes as planned, we might be fortunate enough to see it released the week of June 23rd (next week).

In particular, I want to highlight the sheer number of desync bugs that the development team has fixed:


  • Fixed a desync that occurs when a Nod ally attempts to create a Decoy army of a Mechapede.
  • Fixed a desync that occurs when creating a free-for-all 8 player game with 6 brutal AI.
  • Fixed a desync that occurs when playing a 6 player game with 4 AIs after both human players have been eliminated and are spectating the match.
  • Fixed a desync that occurs when playing against a brutal AI with 2 players on level Unfair Advantage.
  • Fixed a desync that occurs when playing with 2 players against a Brutal Black Hand AI on the map Unfair Advantage.
  • Fixed a desync when 2 players use Black Hand vs GDI on the map Tournament Arena.
  • Fixed a desync that occurs when engaging Firehawks with Seekers
  • Fixed a desync when Venoms attack a Plasma Missile Battery that is detecting an invisible unit
It is fairly clear why this patch has taken so long. These desyncs occur under fairly obscure scenarios, which makes them tough to track down. On the one hand, I wish to laud the developers for their diligence -- 8 unique desync scenarios have been fixed!

But on the other hand, Command & Conquer fans should demand better than this. Kane's Wrath should have never been released with this many crippling bugs. These desyncs don't just cripple online play -- I've had them happen on LAN matches as well. This begs the question: did anyone test the game?

And with the desyncs being so widespread, online players be warned: the developers have probably missed a scenario or two.  I doubt that this patch will be the final nail in the desyncs' coffin.

As a C&C fan, I would have much prefered for this game to have been delayed these 3 months, rather than suffer with a broken product for all that time. Decision makers at EA: take notice.

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Offline CG Apollos  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:30:32 PM(UTC)
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MicScoTho wrote:
But on the other hand, Command & Conquer fans should demand better than this. Kane's Wrath should have never been released with this many crippling bugs. These desyncs don't just cripple online play -- I've had them happen on LAN matches as well. This begs the question: did anyone test the game?
I couldn't agree more. I quit playing the game because, on release, I couldn't even play LAN with my friends and family without a desync. It's amazing how they could ship a game that won't even allow you to play with the built-in AI!

On release, the game should be able to function with its main features. This patch pretty much allows me to use what I paid for; it shouldn't be this way. I would have rather had them delay release another 3 months than to ship me a broken game that doesn't even work.

Oh, and don't get me started on Battle for Middle Earth 2: Rise of the Witch-King...
Offline MicScoTho  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:44:00 PM(UTC)
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AuroraAlphaHL2 wrote:
Oh, and don't get me started on Battle for Middle Earth 2: Rise of the Witch-King...
I didn't buy that one, but I can only imagine.


You can get refunds from most retailers and/or manufacturers for many kinds of defective merchandise. As a software developer myself, I wonder: why not for defective software?
MicScoTho - Founder
Offline incia  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 18, 2008 7:00:25 PM(UTC)
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Luckily the only Desynch I have had was from a Replay, otherwise I have had solid and honorable losses to mechaspams online.

However, I think this will fix the gameplay and balance alot. However, there are still two things not mentioned on the patch notes, maybe on the next patch?

1. Global Conquest Mode bug/exploit fixes.
2. Skirmish AI fixes, because they seem to miss the other half of their brain.

PS: Where the heck did the Visceroids disappear? On Corrupters tool-tip it still says "Spawns Visceroids", but I have not seen any Visceroids in KW.
Offline CommieDog  
#5 Posted : Thursday, June 19, 2008 6:47:39 PM(UTC)
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Clearly the desynch issue is more than just desynchronization between two different players--how could a replay of a friggin' skirmish game desynch? Does the Skirmish AI use half of its CPU time trying hacks?
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Offline incia  
#6 Posted : Friday, June 20, 2008 6:33:52 AM(UTC)
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CommieDog wrote:
Clearly the desynch issue is more than just desynchronization between two different players--how could a replay of a friggin' skirmish game desynch? Does the Skirmish AI use half of its CPU time trying hacks?


I have no idea.

First I thought it had to do with RAM or something, so I turned down all my graphic settings to low while watching the Replay, (I think it was a 6 player or 8 player game) and still the same Replay desynched three times for me. Oh, and this was an online game.

However, a Skirmish game have also desynched once for me, while I tried to study a Brutal Rusher AI.
Offline MicScoTho  
#7 Posted : Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:28:25 PM(UTC)
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More from the news:----
The bad news is that Kane's Wrath patch 1.01 - originally slated for release today - has been pushed back until next week. Presumably, this is because a bug was found in the patch that EA decided to fix - so in a way, this is actually good news. Despite the vehement and completely justified anger on the official forums.

The other good news - if your definition of good includes promises for the future, which it may not - is that EALA General Manager Mike Verdu has announced that EA is creating a "live" team for supporting their released RTS titles:

Quote:
I am not as proud of our record in supporting our games after launch. In fact, I'm downright unhappy with that aspect of our business. There have been some bright spots: For example, our community manager's passionate advocacy on behalf of our customers, the huge patch 1.05 for Battle for Middle-earth II that was a labor of love between our team and the community, and our fast response to some initial problems on C&amp;C3. <span style="font-weight: bold;">But overall, the level of support has been lacking. We tend to put out a limited number of patches for our products and in many cases those patches take longer than they should to finish, test, and release. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">It&rsquo;s been a chronic issue for more than four years, and we need to fix it.</span> </span><span style="font-style: italic;">(emphasis added)</span>
It's good to see someone at EA admitting that they suck at supporting games. And it's good to see that they are, in theory, taking substantial steps to get better.

However, this isn't the first time Verdu has apologized for EA's poor performance and promised to do better in the future (to dig up an old favorite - see the Generals Ladder Kit, for starters). So, forgive me if I remain a skeptic. Indeed, I think Verdu's comments support my skepticism:

Quote:
I am not going to say that this initiative is going to instantly solve all of our support issues &ndash; and I don't think we have the credibility with our customers to make that claim anyway.
MicScoTho - Founder
Offline CG Apollos  
#8 Posted : Friday, July 4, 2008 8:04:14 AM(UTC)
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MicScoTho wrote:
I didn't buy that one, but I can only imagine.
It ruined such a perfectly balanced game (BFME II 1.05) and introduced alot of new bugs/exploits. Instead of addressing the wide range of issues and the community's complaints, they moved on to C&C 3. The community actually decided to take things into their own hands with an unofficial patch, but it could only go so far.

Secondly, the expansion pack was just cheap. The main menu was just a piece of concept art slapped behind the UI. Curious, I took a look at the shortcut properties on the .exe one time and noticed that it had the "-quickstart" command, similar to the one for C&C Generals. I didn't want to touch it; I doubt that the game would function properly if I disabled it. Laugh

Most of the new units were simply existing models/animations with re-skins. For example, the new Dwarven infantry were Gimli clones with the same "axe throw" special ability. The Angmar bowmen were called "Dark Rangers" or something like that, which were clones of the MOTW Rangers and also had the longshot ability. Great originality there, EA. I bet that even the The Power of San Andreas mod team could have done a better job at designing units.

MicScoTho wrote:
You can get refunds from most retailers and/or manufacturers for many kinds of defective merchandise. As a software developer myself, I wonder: why not for defective software?
That's actually quite a good idea, though defective software would be on a global scale unless you're talking about critcal issues regarding functionality with the hardware/drivers, OS, etc.
MicScoTho wrote:
The bad news is that Kane's Wrath patch 1.01 - originally slated for release today - has been pushed back until next week. Presumably, this is because a bug was found in the patch that EA decided to fix - so in a way, this is actually good news. Despite the vehement and completely justified anger on the official forums.
As long as something's getting fixed, it doesn't bother me, though I would like to finally play this game. If I can't play with the AI after all of this waiting, I might consider selling the game...
MicScoTho wrote:
The other good news - if your definition of good includes promises for the future, which it may not - is that EALA General Manager Mike Verdu has announced that EA is creating a "live" team for supporting their released RTS titles:

'I am not as proud of our record in supporting our games after launch. In fact, I'm downright unhappy with that aspect of our business. There have been some bright spots: For example, our community manager's passionate advocacy on behalf of our customers, the huge patch 1.05 for Battle for Middle-earth II that was a labor of love between our team and the community, and our fast response to some initial problems on C&C3. But overall, the level of support has been lacking. We tend to put out a limited number of patches for our products and in many cases those patches take longer than they should to finish, test, and release. It’s been a chronic issue for more than four years, and we need to fix it.'

However, this isn't the first time Verdu has apologized for EA's poor performance and promised to do better in the future (to dig up an old favorite - see the Generals Ladder Kit, for starters). So, forgive me if I remain a skeptic. Indeed, I think Verdu's comments support my skepticism: 'I am not going to say that this initiative is going to instantly solve all of our support issues – and I don't think we have the credibility with our customers to make that claim anyway.'
I'm happy that they at least acknowledge this problem and perhaps even want to do something about it. Their customer support is horrible; they have a bad reputation for this among many people, including myself for numerous reasons. Unfortunately, we can only take this at face value, because as you've said, this isn't the first time that they've said this. You are right in being a skeptic, but I still hope for the best in their future endeavors regarding customer support.

Edited by user Saturday, July 5, 2008 10:36:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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