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Offline Gameanater  
#1 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 9:40:21 AM(UTC)
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Just a couple interesting ideas for the SupW general, probably the least-used general in the entire game given her abysmal early game but her OP late game.



--- Firebase meets Patriot and Bunkers ---


Firebases would be able to "assist fire" like the Patriot missile can. If I recall correctly this would be simple enough to add, just add the appropriate module and another "assist" weapon with a much longer range.

Firebases would also be able to hold vehicles, not just infantry. Might be pretty cool to have an Avenger inside a firebase, although given that the laser turret is a separate object that might cause some problems.


--- Tanks for SupW - Crusaders and Paladins ---

SupW would get the regular tanks of the USA, except her Crusaders' tank shells also explode with a Flashbang attack, making them strong against infantry as well as other targets, and able to clear out buildings.

However this might make Crusaders a little OP for her, and make the Microwave Tank slightly redundent.


Paladins would also be available, except they are Cold Fusion Paladins. In addition to a stronger, blue-tinted attack, they would trade their laser defense for a Cold Fusion power cell that gives half the power of SupW's Advanced Cold Fusion Reactors, essentially turning them into mobile power plants. I also had the same idea for the Laser general, except his Paladins would attack with a laser instead of tank shells.

This would open up a lot of new strategies having a mobile power source.



--- All vehicles have a Battle Bus-style second life ---


Just what it says, all of her vehicles would have a second life as a ghetto bunker of sorts like the Battle Bus, probably somewhat reinforcing the idea of her being a defense-based general. However while something like this would make sense for the Humvee since it already has garrison slots, I'm not sure what to do with her other vehicles for this feature. Avengers might lose their ability to shoot aircraft or boost unit firing rates, but they could at least still block missiles about half as effectively? Microwave Tanks would no longer be able to shut down buildings, but would keep their microwave field active? Cold Fusion Paladins would still generate a small amount of power? Crusaders might just be turned into low-range stationary turrets? And Ambulances could still hold 3 infantry (for whatever its worth) and would still heal units around them?




That's all my ideas for now. I am however curious as to how to implement the last one. It would simply be a matter of adding a few ConditionStates and modules, correct?
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Offline Zatsupachi  
#2 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 10:50:06 AM(UTC)
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Deployable Rangers-
I was thinking she'd have heavier armored infantry that moved slower.
And they'd have the ability to deploy(using rider shenanigans) to immobilize themselves to use a Light Machinegun -- GIs, they can un-deploy anytime they wish.

Issues: Transporting or Garrisoning them is glitchy, don't give them this function.
You'll have to disable their ability to rank up. Switching between states keeps the rank, but it suicides itself after another switch for some odd reason.

Note: Should also have the normal variant of the Ranger with-- I don't know-- maybe EMP Grenades?

Deployable Missile Defenders-
Same as above, and uncrushable like the Guardian GIs.

Same issues as above though.

Tank Bunker Base-
It's a firebase but only for vehicles. Disallow Avengers-- I know this from experience-- Vehicles with Portable Objects + Firebase Logic doesn't not end well.

Flashbang Crusaders-- I feel like I've heard this before...

Battlefortress
Like in RA2, essentially an assault troopcrawler with a gun and can run over smaller vehicles. Give it a capacity of 8(RA2 Original has 5)-- and we're good.

I don't see why you would need a HEAVY TANK to be carrying your power.
Because they tread that thin line of usefulness and practicality.
How much power do I need for my base? Can I use them in combat without relying on them to keep my base powered?
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Offline Gameanater  
#3 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 11:37:39 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zatsupachi Go to Quoted Post
Deployable Rangers-
I was thinking she'd have heavier armored infantry that moved slower.
And they'd have the ability to deploy(using rider shenanigans) to immobilize themselves to use a Light Machinegun -- GIs, they can un-deploy anytime they wish.

Issues: Transporting or Garrisoning them is glitchy, don't give them this function.
You'll have to disable their ability to rank up. Switching between states keeps the rank, but it suicides itself after another switch for some odd reason.

Note: Should also have the normal variant of the Ranger with-- I don't know-- maybe EMP Grenades?


I like the GI Ranger idea, but if they're buggy like you said with transporting and ranking up, and you'd have to remove those functions, I'm not sure what I think about that. It would kind of negate the deployable part of them if they couldn't garrison anything or be transported by Chinooks, also removing any chance of Ranger Dropping them into enemy garrisons.

As for an EMP Grenade Ranger, might be neat since Flashbangs might be given to Crusaders. Although I think it might make more sense to give Missile Defenders EMP missiles, maybe using HistoricBonusCount or whatever the code is that makes Inferno Cannons create a firestorm after so many of their shells hit a target at once. Do the same thing here but make 3 or so missiles trigger an EMP Pulse to keep EMP MD's from being too powerful.

This is a pretty random idea, but what if SupW's Rangers could make carbombs? It's more of a GLA thing I know but, might be neat. Might be bordering on being overpowered, though.


Quote:
Deployable Missile Defenders-
Same as above, and uncrushable like the Guardian GIs.

Same issues as above though.


I like this idea, but yeah with the same issues I don't know about it.



Quote:
Tank Bunker Base-
It's a firebase but only for vehicles. Disallow Avengers-- I know this from experience-- Vehicles with Portable Objects + Firebase Logic doesn't not end well.

Flashbang Crusaders-- I feel like I've heard this before...


Hmm... Maybe throw out Firebase logic and turn it more into a bunker with the Firebase's gun? I have given Tank general bunkers that can hold vehicles and had no problems with Overlords occupying it.

However, they couldn't use their Gattling turrets from inside, and it was pointless to put Troop Crawlers and Listening Outposts in there because their occupants couldn't fire out. If an Avenger entered in, I think it could at least use its laser targeting for whatever it's worth, but they'd still be better outside the bunker.

While I'm on this topic of vehicle bunkers (without using Firebase logic), I do also recall that the Dragon Tank's weapon would get stuck only firing one direction and at a weird angle, which is why I changed it to a cross between the Battlemaster's weapon and the Inferno Cannon's weapon.

I think it's safe to say that vehicles in bunkers will always be buggy to some degree, but they can still be pretty cool.


And yes, I forgot about it but I have done Flashbang Crusaders before. http://www.moddb.com/mod...or-supw-general#imagebox
They're pretty great, though again are slightly redundant to Rangers, and putting Rangers in Humvees could get the job done faster and probably better.



Quote:
Battlefortress
Like in RA2, essentially an assault troopcrawler with a gun and can run over smaller vehicles. Give it a capacity of 8(RA2 Original has 5)-- and we're good.


I like this idea, though I think it would fit the Infantry General more to give him an equivalent to an Overlord. Call it the Bunkerlord, have it come with 8 slots, and be able to upgrade to a Gattling turret or a Propaganda Tower. If it were to come with a gun right off the bat, probably make it just do respectable damage but nothing special.



Quote:
I don't see why you would need a HEAVY TANK to be carrying your power.
Because they tread that thin line of usefulness and practicality.
How much power do I need for my base? Can I use them in combat without relying on them to keep my base powered?


I see your point. On one hand it'd be cool to have a mobile power source, on the other hand you might not really be able to use them in combat all too well without risking losing chunks of your power. At best, they'd probably be a mobile power source with decent armor and a gun to protect themselves occasionally.

I might still try this idea just to see how it would work, but as you said they might not be that great to use in combat.


---

One more idea for SupW general, that I have actually done before.

Aurora Alphas are Hero Units that require a Strategy Center, SupW gets slightly discounted regular Auroras.

Exactly what it says. The way I did it was just copy the existing Aurora Alpha as a separate unit (I.E. SupW_AmericaJetAurorarHero) and give it the prerequisite of a Strategy Center, and then convert the original Aurora Alpha to a regular Aurora Bomber. That also lets the AI still use it without you having to edit the scripts (because I'm lazy and I'm terrible at scripting).

However I think Igave the Aurora Alpha a MaxSimultaneousOfType of like 4 or so (maybe just 2), because unless you gave it really tanky armor or an even stronger gun, it's a lot harder to use effectively as just one unit.



EDIT: I just realized how stupid I made myself look to a lot of players. Aurora's ALREADY require a Strategy Center. -_-' Boy has it been a long time since I've played Zero Hour.

Edited by user Friday, March 31, 2017 12:16:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Annihilationzh  
#4 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 3:54:06 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
EDIT: I just realized how stupid I made myself look to a lot of players. Aurora's ALREADY require a Strategy Center. -_-' Boy has it been a long time since I've played Zero Hour.

Welcome to being human. You forget things just like everyone else. You make it sound like it's something terrible, but I doubt anyone will remember this in a month's time.
If you need help, post in the forum. You'll get help a lot faster than if you send me a PM.

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Offline Gameanater  
#5 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 4:57:49 PM(UTC)
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Lol yeah. Tongue Just kind of a "doh!" moment for me. It's just been a long time since I've been able to play Zero Hour. I'm hoping this summer once school is out of the way I can play it again and get back into modding, though I also hope to maybe try my hand at modding Half-Life 2.

That said I know I will still be fairly busy this summer with my job, possibly taking a second job, and life stuff in general. Entertainment must come second.
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Offline qqqqqqqqqp  
#6 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 5:46:54 PM(UTC)
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Yea I can't remember alot of what I done perks of being human I guess.
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Offline mr_hymn_  
#7 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 10:15:02 PM(UTC)
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So many good idea though but I made a tank with second life already and it works. Fire base that can contain vehicle also works too but appearance in a weird way. for Crusader with flashbang I did something different because actual tank will have a crew behind the machine gun yeah all of my tanks have machine gun.

I made Paladin more powerful instead the laser on top of the turret shoot a laser straight to any tanks and infantry within 100 radius. however this kind of weapon sacrificed the laser point defense system. No longer defect the missiles and consume energy instead of giving energy.

Tank bunker base is a good idea. Deployable unit I have no idea of how to make the animation but I made something difference. I made a ranger that can build a base that similar to stinger site but it has no spawn so you need your ranger to garrison it. Also can build propaganda and small tent (act like barracks)

I also made the special unit similar to regular ranger BUT have great ability I can enter stealth mode and gain quicker speed while weapon rate of file is reduce by 50% but I can switch between these mode also contain a special armor which will consume energy but will help unit last longer to any kind of small arms, gattling, commanche gun and sniper gun etc however the drawbacks is unit will also act like vehicle mean missiles can follow them. The first infantry that can be aimed with missile.

Lastly I made a Ratte, Ratte is a huge monster tank idea from world war 2 German Nazi.

I used the design based on Infantry General Overlord. Super slow movement and slow turret traverse and slow reload time.
It has a size that slightly bigger than a command center and gun is more deadly, more armor, HP pool and such also can contain more infantry inside the big tank. Create dirty nuke on death. It sounds OP but reality it doesn't because I can use this big tank as a tank to draw the enemy fire then using small tanks to destroy around. It too slow to hit all enemies around and easy to get reakt if no support and a huge drawback of this big tank is gun limit it can't hit any thing that get real close to the tank for balancing purpose.

Edited by user Friday, March 31, 2017 10:15:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline mr_hymn_  
#8 Posted : Friday, March 31, 2017 10:38:32 PM(UTC)
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For the second life tank at first I am using a same way as battlebus however it's end up with tank is destroyed because it needs to have at least 1 infantry inside the tank and a tank still act like OP even immobile. gun traverse is fast, quick firing.

So what I fixed it I made a regular tank will create object die and create another object. a tank that I put Rubbish at the back of the object name. It have ability same as regular version but texture is rubbish or damaged forever.

Gun rate of fire is 50% worse. HP is reduced by 50% but armor gains 10% stronger. View range is 20% worse and I put crew eject feature with a tank for rubbish only. if tank was destroyed will deploy 3-4 rangers out as a tank crew along with pilot. Also I can manually eject if needed.

Offline acidbrain  
#9 Posted : Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:43:11 AM(UTC)
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I think that it would be cool if the SW gen had multiple types of SW's, 3 or maybe 4, just like the boss gen has all the SW's from different factions.
Tomahawk Storm would be nice for the SW gen or maybe even a vehicle that has a SW, reminds me of that tank with the particle cannon in the Contra mod, pretty cool tank imho.

Edited by user Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:46:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Secret

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Offline zero hour mad map maker  
#10 Posted : Sunday, April 2, 2017 3:36:28 PM(UTC)
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What about her having the ability to build the ISBM's instead of the Pink-Particle cannon? I dunno about you guys, but the pink one isn't THAT much more powerful than the blue....
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Offline Gameanater  
#11 Posted : Sunday, April 2, 2017 4:28:34 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: acidbrain Go to Quoted Post
I think that it would be cool if the SW gen had multiple types of SW's, 3 or maybe 4, just like the boss gen has all the SW's from different factions.
Tomahawk Storm would be nice for the SW gen or maybe even a vehicle that has a SW, reminds me of that tank with the particle cannon in the Contra mod, pretty cool tank imho.


Well the ICBM is already implemented as a partially-functional building, except one version is the Nuclear Missile without radiation and the other is basically a copy of the MOAB... Except it has an OP short timer and the missile launches funky.

I've yet to dip my toes in hardly any superweapon coding, and since I haven't done ANY modding in several months I've forgotten a fair amount of what I already know. However I would love to implement USA mockups of other faction's superweapons for SupW General.

An interesting idea for the Tomahawk Storm-- instead of it being a carbon copy of a GLA SCUD Storm without any toxin, what if it actually fired the same Tomahawk projectiles the Tomahawk launches? The enemy could potentially shoot down the missiles before they hit their mark but to compensate the Tomahawk Storm would have a shorter timer than other Superweapons.

As for the ICBM it'd probably be a Nuclear Missile launcher clone, except instead of radiation after it detonates it creates a huge microwave field similar to the Microwave Tanks. Unsure how I would implement that, though.

Originally Posted by: Zero Hour Mad Map Maker Go to Quoted Post
What about her having the ability to build the ICBM's instead of the Pink-Particle cannon? I dunno about you guys, but the pink one isn't THAT much more powerful than the blue....


I don't think there actually IS a difference in damage. I think I buffed the damage in the older, broken version of my mod. It still couldn't one-shot Command Centers or Superweapons but it came much closer.

I think I also wanted to change the Laser General's Partile Cannon to the Laser Cannon, which would last twice as long but deal far less damage (which does run into problems when you can lead the beam unto uncleared terrain, but I think that could be fixed by upping the shroud distance cleared when you fire the cannon). However I wasn't too sure how to do that without breaking the AI.

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Offline mr_hymn_  
#12 Posted : Sunday, April 2, 2017 8:28:06 PM(UTC)
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I want to build the tomahawk storm which similar to SCUD storm. I see the cameo in the game file but I couldn't find the actual code and model of it. I might copy this model from other mods and implement with w3d and textures into my mod.
Offline Zatsupachi  
#13 Posted : Sunday, April 2, 2017 11:49:11 PM(UTC)
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^ There's already a model for it.
Just use the SCUD Storm Object and replace the Models and Animation with to ABTmHkStmSW(and ABTmHkStmSW_A1 and etc.,)
And change the launch bones from WEAPON to MISSILE.
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Offline mr_hymn_  
#14 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 3:22:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Zatsupachi Go to Quoted Post
^ There's already a model for it.
Just use the SCUD Storm Object and replace the Models and Animation with to ABTmHkStmSW(and ABTmHkStmSW_A1 and etc.,)
And change the launch bones from WEAPON to MISSILE.


Almost there but I think I made a little mistakes.

WeaponLaunchBone = PRIMARY MissileA
ShowSubObject = MissileA01 MissileA02 MissileA03 MissileA04 MissileA05 MissileA06 MissileA07 MissileA08 MissileA09

I changed to above and missile is running in a weird way.
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BTW About the missile object. Should I just use a regular tomahawk missile or if there is a specific missile model for this tomahawk storm?
Offline mr_hymn_  
#15 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 5:13:54 AM(UTC)
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Ok success... I am looking in the google for some details and found out that

WeaponLaunchBone = PRIMARY MissileA
ShowSubObject = MissileA01 MissileA02 MissileA03 MissileA04 MissileA05 MissileA06 MissileA07 MissileA08 MissileA09

It's not missileA it's missile so now it's working properly now. thanks foe the help
Offline acidbrain  
#16 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 7:11:09 AM(UTC)
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2 weeks ago there was This thread, just sayin...:P
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Offline mr_hymn_  
#17 Posted : Monday, April 3, 2017 9:10:18 AM(UTC)
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I linked the Tomahawk missile to MOAB detonation and it was too OP. Area damage is shorter but actual damage is so high and send everything fly up in the Air.

I have an idea of Bunker Buster bomb drop. This will send everything up in the air. I might put something to make sure that all targets in the area will be send away and never return.
Offline Gameanater  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:48:46 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Mr_Hymn_ Go to Quoted Post
I linked the Tomahawk missile to MOAB detonation and it was too OP. Area damage is shorter but actual damage is so high and send everything fly up in the Air.


Don't take this the wrong way, but I am curious as to how one might think a Superweapon launching multiple MOAB missiles would be even remotely balanced. XD

That said it would make a pretty amusing joke Superweapon, or even could be a badass Superweapon in a single-player mission where the end goal is to capture it, and you operate under a long timer before the enemy launches it and ends the game.


Quote:
I have an idea of Bunker Buster bomb drop. This will send everything up in the air. I might put something to make sure that all targets in the area will be send away and never return.


Quote:
BTW About the missile object. Should I just use a regular tomahawk missile or if there is a specific missile model for this tomahawk storm?


You should be able to just duplicate the existing SCUD Storm missile object and switch its art code with that of the Tomahawk Missile's. As for the weapon itself, I haven't tested it but try something like this:


Bunker Buster weapon looks a bit more complicated than I recall, so I didn't try my guesswork with that.

Even though I did do some guesswork with this Superweapon stuff.


Hopefully this helps. I haven't done much modding for awhile so most of this is guesswork on my part.

Edited by user Tuesday, April 4, 2017 9:49:38 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Added SPOILER tags

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