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Posted by: Neoguy327 - Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:55:37 PM
Hi I'm new to this site by a couple of weeks, and maybe you have already stated it or something about it, but is there any set release date for the all stars mod? I Love all the C&C games and can't wait to try this mod! If you don't have a set release date is there a estimate as to how long it will be? I know I would be more than happy, like anyone else I'm sure, to test it out![grin]

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:12:18 PM
I usually say "when it's done" as the answer to that question. However, I think we're getting there, and within a few months is certainly very probable.

Posted by: Luckie - Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:36:10 PM
In the last month we've really seen large strides in putting together a final product. Obviously what people see in screenshots is not even scraping the surface of the work that goes into something this large. Models and skins are a large part but coding, cameos, sounds, music, and other touches are often just as/more important. The mod is obviously playable as it is, however, it is not nearly representative of the amount of work put into it. The coming month is going to be a lot of pulling together the pieces. Many of the features and changes that the game will make in the final version are complete but not implemented in the master source yet. "When It's Done" is certainly a vague release date to most people but to us, it specifically means the point at which we're satisfied with the quality and completeness of our work.

Posted by: Luckie - Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:36:10 PM

In the last month we've really seen large strides in putting together a final product. Obviously what people see in screenshots is not even scraping the surface of the work that goes into something this large. Models and skins are a large part but coding, cameos, sounds, music, and other touches are often just as/more important. The mod is obviously playable as it is, however, it is not nearly representative of the amount of work put into it. The coming month is going to be a lot of pulling together the pieces. Many of the features and changes that the game will make in the final version are complete but not implemented in the master source yet. "When It's Done" is certainly a vague release date to most people but to us, it specifically means the point at which we're satisfied with the quality and completeness of our work.

Posted by: Neoguy327 - Thursday, September 28, 2006 7:02:59 AM
Well just to give you guys some much needed credit, Thank You! I think you guys are doing a great thing! Oh and I'm sure that its tons of work especially with the models and all the extra scripting. Are you guys going to feature an AI with this mod? I'm actually kind of a little surprised that they haven't made a an actual game like this yet but I'm glad you guys are making this mod![smile] I'm sure its going to be great and bring a lot of attention back to this game![sunglasses]

Posted by: Neoguy327 - Thursday, September 28, 2006 7:02:59 AM

Well just to give you guys some much needed credit, Thank You! I think you guys are doing a great thing! Oh and I'm sure that its tons of work especially with the models and all the extra scripting. Are you guys going to feature an AI with this mod? I'm actually kind of a little surprised that they haven't made a an actual game like this yet but I'm glad you guys are making this mod![smile] I'm sure its going to be great and bring a lot of attention back to this game![sunglasses]

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:16:45 PM
AI should be included, yes.

Posted by: fleetatks - Friday, September 29, 2006 7:28:55 PM
Make sure to include some of yuri's units in your mod, I don't think I've seen any in the screenshots you guys have.

Posted by: tsumetai - Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:11:32 AM
I direct you to here: http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/allstars/design.asp Look under "Units" and "Subarmies" on the right.

Posted by: Heer - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 3:13:44 AM
Well whoopdeedoo! A Virus, A Gattling Tank, a Slave Miner. Oh, and yes, if you're lucky, a Flying Disc. Personally I would have found units or structures with the distinctive mind control ability much more representative for Yuri.

Posted by: CG Apollos - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 6:11:09 AM
I don't know if mind control technology can be coded using ZH, since i've never seen it done in a mod before. CommieDog?

Posted by: Luckie - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 7:46:06 AM
The Design is very much finalized already. Suggestions were taken two years ago. lol. Mind control is sort of possible. We've implemented some interesting code.

Posted by: DetoNato - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 10:05:53 AM
I guess mind control is possible if you use a hijacker as projectile of a weapon. Never tested yet, but it could work...

Posted by: CG Apollos - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 12:47:17 PM
[quote=DetoNato] I guess mind control is possible if you use a hijacker as projectile of a weapon. Never tested yet, but it could work... [/quote]Hmm... Maybe. But how would you give the unit back to the original owner when your unit with the hijacker gun dies?

Posted by: Heer - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 12:58:38 PM
Wow you guys take the mod pretty serious, and I can already tell that you are very creative with the available editor technology. That design, suggestions, etc have been finalized two years ago can hardly be true, because then, in all due haste, the modders forgot to give the Red Alert Army anti air defense structures. Maybe they should have tank bunker, so that you can use Yuri gattling tank as anti air defense. Also with different faction units this could create interesting situations. But then again I don't know how everything is sceduled, what is possible, what is public and what is secret. I have also seen screenshots of the GDI base defenses from the orginial C&C and a Nod turret.

Posted by: Heer - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 12:58:38 PM

Wow you guys take the mod pretty serious, and I can already tell that you are very creative with the available editor technology. That design, suggestions, etc have been finalized two years ago can hardly be true, because then, in all due haste, the modders forgot to give the Red Alert Army anti air defense structures. Maybe they should have tank bunker, so that you can use Yuri gattling tank as anti air defense. Also with different faction units this could create interesting situations. But then again I don't know how everything is sceduled, what is possible, what is public and what is secret. I have also seen screenshots of the GDI base defenses from the orginial C&C and a Nod turret.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 1:29:13 PM
The AA Gun is featured for the Red Alert Army. It was a late addition, so it might not be on the webpage. We were unable to get the Tank Bunker to work with the Generals engine.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 1:38:22 PM
The mod's design has indeed evolved over time, as all good designs must. While the team was very open to suggestions when development began, late design changes have mostly arisen from the inside. Now, for all intents and purposes, the design is indeed final, largely due to the fact that the mod would never be complete if we kept allowing the design to change. This does not by definition preclude any future improvements to the mod post-release. No promises here, however; I cannot speak for the development team.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 1:38:22 PM

The mod's design has indeed evolved over time, as all good designs must. While the team was very open to suggestions when development began, late design changes have mostly arisen from the inside. Now, for all intents and purposes, the design is indeed final, largely due to the fact that the mod would never be complete if we kept allowing the design to change. This does not by definition preclude any future improvements to the mod post-release. No promises here, however; I cannot speak for the development team.

Posted by: fleetatks - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:14:03 PM
You guys noticed that the general's elite general's powers all stink right? I reccommend: Artillery barradge replace cash bounty. A-10 strike replace paradrop A "Mini Scud storm" replaces GPS scrambler, since every1 else has a superweapon at level 5. "king raptor training" replaces stealth bomber, and let them have stealth bomber from start, other wise it will never get used.

Posted by: Luckie - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:25:56 PM
Fleetatks, we haven't started extensive balancing yet. As for right now, I can say that the generals elite powers (or lack of power) is offset by the dominance of their units. However, we will be tweaking, changing, and outright modifying the balancing as we see fit during balance testing. As a side note: I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;)

Posted by: Luckie - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 4:25:56 PM

Fleetatks, we haven't started extensive balancing yet. As for right now, I can say that the generals elite powers (or lack of power) is offset by the dominance of their units. However, we will be tweaking, changing, and outright modifying the balancing as we see fit during balance testing. As a side note: I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;)

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 6:07:03 PM
I wish we had this discussion 2 years ago... [quote=Heer]Well whoopdeedoo! A Virus, A Gattling Tank, a Slave Miner. Oh, and yes, if you're lucky, a Flying Disc. [/quote] Considering that Yuri as a side was only present in an expansion pack for one of the RA games, it should not be surprising that Yuri is less represented than the Allies and Soviets, who were present in both RA games. [quote=Heer]Personally I would have found units or structures with the distinctive mind control ability much more representative for Yuri. [/quote] If you know the code for a faithful representation of Yuri (Prime), the MasterMind, or the Psychic Tower, please feel free to PM that code to me. The most I can do is a weaker version of the Psychic Dominator.

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 6:07:03 PM

I wish we had this discussion 2 years ago... [quote=Heer]Well whoopdeedoo! A Virus, A Gattling Tank, a Slave Miner. Oh, and yes, if you're lucky, a Flying Disc. [/quote] Considering that Yuri as a side was only present in an expansion pack for one of the RA games, it should not be surprising that Yuri is less represented than the Allies and Soviets, who were present in both RA games. [quote=Heer]Personally I would have found units or structures with the distinctive mind control ability much more representative for Yuri. [/quote] If you know the code for a faithful representation of Yuri (Prime), the MasterMind, or the Psychic Tower, please feel free to PM that code to me. The most I can do is a weaker version of the Psychic Dominator.

Posted by: Heer - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 4:37:22 AM
Yuri as a side was only present in Red Alert 2 expansion and it is logical that his share in representation is smaller than the Allies and the Soviets. Yes this is true. Of course the question about 'representation' can bring up many different perspectives and opinions. Red Alert 2 and Yuri's revenge should be counted as one game. This is because the expansion includes the same units and structures as the original, but more in addition. The expansion is basically a completer version of Red Alert 2. It says that psychic shielding gives Yuri units more defense. Yuri has three whole units and one building, or four units and no buildings if you will. One of the units is optional. Then again I respect the descisions made because the Mod team has expirimented with the Tank Bunker and mind control. I think that the Generals Elite doesn't really need more bombings, because there are already various variations of a10 sorties and parabombs. Also they have Aurora Bombers and potential of the Air Fuel Bomb. Next to that they have Scrap Repair, Advanced Training, Supply Lines and Composite Armor. These upgrades are pretty powerful in my experience.

Posted by: Heer - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 4:37:22 AM

Yuri as a side was only present in Red Alert 2 expansion and it is logical that his share in representation is smaller than the Allies and the Soviets. Yes this is true. Of course the question about 'representation' can bring up many different perspectives and opinions. Red Alert 2 and Yuri's revenge should be counted as one game. This is because the expansion includes the same units and structures as the original, but more in addition. The expansion is basically a completer version of Red Alert 2. It says that psychic shielding gives Yuri units more defense. Yuri has three whole units and one building, or four units and no buildings if you will. One of the units is optional. Then again I respect the descisions made because the Mod team has expirimented with the Tank Bunker and mind control. I think that the Generals Elite doesn't really need more bombings, because there are already various variations of a10 sorties and parabombs. Also they have Aurora Bombers and potential of the Air Fuel Bomb. Next to that they have Scrap Repair, Advanced Training, Supply Lines and Composite Armor. These upgrades are pretty powerful in my experience.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 6:06:01 PM
I think the Generals Elite sciences are powerful enough, but we'll see how things play out. As for Yuri, there's not a lot units we could or should add--is the Lasher Tank really more memorable than the Grizzly Tank? We picked four unique units (Slave Miner, Floating Disc, Virus, and Gattling Tank) each of which serves a specific and important role. As far as Psychic Shielding goes, any player who chooses Yuri will be using Yuri units, so the upgrade is valuable. Maybe it is not as powerful as some other upgrades, but the Psychic Dominator generals ability is useful, and can compensate (I'd consider Psychic Dominator more useful than the Mechanic Repair--the Allies Generals power--but Psychic Shielding less useful than Pinpoint Sensors--the Allied upgrade). Again, it's all a balance.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 6:06:01 PM

I think the Generals Elite sciences are powerful enough, but we'll see how things play out. As for Yuri, there's not a lot units we could or should add--is the Lasher Tank really more memorable than the Grizzly Tank? We picked four unique units (Slave Miner, Floating Disc, Virus, and Gattling Tank) each of which serves a specific and important role. As far as Psychic Shielding goes, any player who chooses Yuri will be using Yuri units, so the upgrade is valuable. Maybe it is not as powerful as some other upgrades, but the Psychic Dominator generals ability is useful, and can compensate (I'd consider Psychic Dominator more useful than the Mechanic Repair--the Allies Generals power--but Psychic Shielding less useful than Pinpoint Sensors--the Allied upgrade). Again, it's all a balance.

Posted by: Neoguy327 - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 7:25:54 PM
This mod sounds absolutely amazing! If you need a tester I'd be more than happy to test it! How much of the naval play of red alert 2 will be in, if at all? [quote=Luckie] I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;) [/quote] I totally agree although maybe they'll put something like this in the works after they see this mod spread like wildfire. Then you guys can be the Forefathers of the game. lol

Posted by: Neoguy327 - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 7:25:54 PM

This mod sounds absolutely amazing! If you need a tester I'd be more than happy to test it! How much of the naval play of red alert 2 will be in, if at all? [quote=Luckie] I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;) [/quote] I totally agree although maybe they'll put something like this in the works after they see this mod spread like wildfire. Then you guys can be the Forefathers of the game. lol

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 7:52:16 PM
[quote=Neoguy327] This mod sounds absolutely amazing! If you need a tester I'd be more than happy to test it! How much of the naval play of red alert 2 will be in, if at all? [quote=Luckie] I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;) [/quote] I totally agree although maybe they'll put something like this in the works after they see this mod spread like wildfire. Then you guys can be the Forefathers of the game. lol [/quote] Sadly, no naval play, except for hovercraft. If EA decides to make a game like this, it means we'll probably get a cease and desist letter, so I don't think I want that. I will be asking for a few new testers in about a week. [grin]

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, October 4, 2006 7:52:16 PM

[quote=Neoguy327] This mod sounds absolutely amazing! If you need a tester I'd be more than happy to test it! How much of the naval play of red alert 2 will be in, if at all? [quote=Luckie] I can honestly say this mod makes Generals not feel like Generals. It FEELS like classic C&C. It makes you wonder why EA didn't do something like this in the first place ;) [/quote] I totally agree although maybe they'll put something like this in the works after they see this mod spread like wildfire. Then you guys can be the Forefathers of the game. lol [/quote] Sadly, no naval play, except for hovercraft. If EA decides to make a game like this, it means we'll probably get a cease and desist letter, so I don't think I want that. I will be asking for a few new testers in about a week. [grin]

Posted by: Heer - Thursday, October 5, 2006 7:47:40 AM
I agree with the argument put forward: A lasher tank has not really more 'nostalgical' value than a grizzly tank. It must be said that, although Gattling Tank and Virus are Yurified versions of existing weapons, (sniper, pathfinder, Chinese chain-gun tank, etc - Not that this is responsibility of the mod or modders, just to be clear) these weapons do serve a useful and tactical function. I misinterpreted the meaning of 'psychic shielding'. I did not know that it would affect all of the players units, I simply thought that it would affect the particular four. I must say that's a pretty powerful upgrade, the Allied upgrade gives +10% attack and this upgrade gives +25% defense, this upgrade is 500 resource cheaper, I think it is at least as useful. (Will it also affect other side units, when the Yuri-player builds or converts them?) Will the Generals Elite faction have drones to come with their vehicles? Or only the USA vehicles, or will the mod leave out the drones? I noticed that the Chinese faction has listening outpost as extra unit. Does it come along with two tank hunter units? Or else two RPG units? Or would it be better to replace the listening outpost with the Nuke Cannon? I also thought about Yuri units such as Brute and Magnetron, but I figured those had been overly difficult to mod to begin with. The Grinder would be interesting, since both the Weed Refinery and the Supply(ore)Purifier are basically two alternative black markets. But then again, would it really be usable? Would it be practical at all? Since most people would use all extra units they get to fight, and not to recycle. What is your opinion on all these things?

Posted by: Heer - Thursday, October 5, 2006 7:47:40 AM

I agree with the argument put forward: A lasher tank has not really more 'nostalgical' value than a grizzly tank. It must be said that, although Gattling Tank and Virus are Yurified versions of existing weapons, (sniper, pathfinder, Chinese chain-gun tank, etc - Not that this is responsibility of the mod or modders, just to be clear) these weapons do serve a useful and tactical function. I misinterpreted the meaning of 'psychic shielding'. I did not know that it would affect all of the players units, I simply thought that it would affect the particular four. I must say that's a pretty powerful upgrade, the Allied upgrade gives +10% attack and this upgrade gives +25% defense, this upgrade is 500 resource cheaper, I think it is at least as useful. (Will it also affect other side units, when the Yuri-player builds or converts them?) Will the Generals Elite faction have drones to come with their vehicles? Or only the USA vehicles, or will the mod leave out the drones? I noticed that the Chinese faction has listening outpost as extra unit. Does it come along with two tank hunter units? Or else two RPG units? Or would it be better to replace the listening outpost with the Nuke Cannon? I also thought about Yuri units such as Brute and Magnetron, but I figured those had been overly difficult to mod to begin with. The Grinder would be interesting, since both the Weed Refinery and the Supply(ore)Purifier are basically two alternative black markets. But then again, would it really be usable? Would it be practical at all? Since most people would use all extra units they get to fight, and not to recycle. What is your opinion on all these things?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, October 5, 2006 1:30:57 PM
Psychic Shielding only affects those four units, hence its lower price. The Listening Outpost comes with two RPG units, I believe. I'm not sure the Grinder is even possible, but I don't see any real advantage to having it. Scout drones are included for USA vehicles.

Posted by: Heer - Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:41:23 PM
Does it affect the virus?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:51:16 PM
Yes, I believe so.

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:32:43 PM
Actually, the Psychic Shielding does not currently affect the Virus. I can certainly change that, though, so both the Virus and Yuri Engineer benefit from it.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, October 5, 2006 5:41:58 PM
I think that should be the case, as they are Yuri units.

Posted by: Neoguy327 - Thursday, October 5, 2006 7:09:42 PM
[quote=Blbpaws] [quote][i][/i] If EA decides to make a game like this, it means we'll probably get a cease and desist letter, so I don't think I want that. I will be asking for a few new testers in about a week. [grin] [/quote] Well I mean a few years later hopefully when your guys' mod is out and set done and you can't improve it anymore. I'd be more than happy to test it for you![grin]

Posted by: Heer - Thursday, October 5, 2006 10:30:12 PM
How about the music? Will the game be using music tracks from the games? In that case, I suggest to give every sub-army it's own set of tracks. (For example: Nod: Slave to the System, GDI: Time Bomb, Forgotten: Rain in the Night, Soviets: Hell March, Allies: Crush, Yuri: Drok, etc or any other selection of tracks that the mod team prefers) But then again I don't know what's possible with copyrights. EDIT: If Psychic Shielding affects infantry, then it also should affect Slaves.

Posted by: Heer - Thursday, October 5, 2006 10:30:12 PM

How about the music? Will the game be using music tracks from the games? In that case, I suggest to give every sub-army it's own set of tracks. (For example: Nod: Slave to the System, GDI: Time Bomb, Forgotten: Rain in the Night, Soviets: Hell March, Allies: Crush, Yuri: Drok, etc or any other selection of tracks that the mod team prefers) But then again I don't know what's possible with copyrights. EDIT: If Psychic Shielding affects infantry, then it also should affect Slaves.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, October 6, 2006 3:08:46 AM
Music from the originals C&C's is already included. I think it sounds quite nice, actually.

Posted by: Heer - Friday, October 6, 2006 4:28:47 PM
Will these structures appear in the mod? [b]Image Insert:[/b] [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/Heer/turret.JPG[/img] [size=2] 4.53 KB[/size]

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, October 6, 2006 6:42:36 PM
Neither is in the current version, having been replaced by the Component Tower, a recent addition.

Posted by: Phe0n1x - Saturday, October 7, 2006 5:38:22 AM
XD score the component tower! i cant wait!

Posted by: Heer - Saturday, October 7, 2006 3:52:06 PM
I have found something that might be of value for the Mod. Blbpaws wrote that the team considered including the Tank Bunker, but that the team did not find a solution to get it to run in the engine. Under is a hyperlink to the website of shockwave Mod. By the looks of things they managed to find a way to get Tank Bunker to run in their Mod for Zero Hour. Maybe it can be examined? It could be studied to find a solution. If one team of modders can do it, then I'm sure this team can too! I have a lot of confidence and faith in the ability of the Mod team. http://commandandconquer.filefront.com/screenshots/File/45898/9 Of course, the picture included is no Yuri Tank Bunker, but a creation by the Shockwave Mod team. I am personally pro-Tank-Bunker, because; -It is Yuri so it gives Yuri a little bit more representation in the Red Alert Alliance. -It provides interesting situations and expiriments when combined with various faction vehicles -It is something different, more original than a standard base defense structure. -It requires a bit of micro management. (By the way I like the music in the Command and Conquer series too, March to Doom is my personal favorite) [b]Image Insert:[/b] [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/Heer/tank bunker.JPG[/img] [size=2] 34.41 KB[/size]

Posted by: Heer - Saturday, October 7, 2006 3:52:06 PM

I have found something that might be of value for the Mod. Blbpaws wrote that the team considered including the Tank Bunker, but that the team did not find a solution to get it to run in the engine. Under is a hyperlink to the website of shockwave Mod. By the looks of things they managed to find a way to get Tank Bunker to run in their Mod for Zero Hour. Maybe it can be examined? It could be studied to find a solution. If one team of modders can do it, then I'm sure this team can too! I have a lot of confidence and faith in the ability of the Mod team. http://commandandconquer.filefront.com/screenshots/File/45898/9 Of course, the picture included is no Yuri Tank Bunker, but a creation by the Shockwave Mod team. I am personally pro-Tank-Bunker, because; -It is Yuri so it gives Yuri a little bit more representation in the Red Alert Alliance. -It provides interesting situations and expiriments when combined with various faction vehicles -It is something different, more original than a standard base defense structure. -It requires a bit of micro management. (By the way I like the music in the Command and Conquer series too, March to Doom is my personal favorite) [b]Image Insert:[/b] [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/Heer/tank bunker.JPG[/img] [size=2] 34.41 KB[/size]

Posted by: Luckie - Saturday, October 7, 2006 7:47:45 PM
The Red alert army already has more than sufficient base defenses. While the tank bunker is cool, the tesla coil is much better.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, October 8, 2006 12:49:42 PM
I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand like that, but I don't think we really have a place for it. The Red Alert Army's defenses are pretty well set. Private message invitations to three new testers have been sent out. Check your PM inbox!

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