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Posted by: incia - Friday, June 11, 2004 2:52:02 PM
Hi I just read the units page for ALL STAR! I think the General army has a bad choise of Infantry units. Could you guys maybe change it?

Posted by: CommieDog - Friday, June 11, 2004 5:52:04 PM
How so? They have the Pathfinder...

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, June 12, 2004 12:33:26 AM
incia, those infantry units might have been chosen that way for balance, and if it aint balanced right then we can always change the units for the gens side.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 12, 2004 4:01:41 AM
the design doc on the main page is only a first draft. It has already been internally revised. We're just not saying everything yet.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 12, 2004 4:53:30 AM
Well I just got mad that you had not chosen any GLA Infantry, GLA just have all the best Infantries.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 12, 2004 7:44:23 AM
such as? lol. It's all a balancing issue.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 12, 2004 8:14:28 AM
Hijacker? Angry Mob? And if they have Hackers, they could have Col.Burton or Jarmen kell instead.

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:46:43 PM
[quote=Blbpaws]the design doc on the main page is only a first draft. It has already been internally revised. We're just not saying everything yet. [/quote] Then perhaps it's time we spoke out before we get a bunch of topics along the line of, "OMG Y U PUT [insert unit that we already decided to remove] IN TEH MOD I MEAN WTF WTF R U THINKING [insert profane word]!!!!111!1" [quote=Incia]Hijacker? Angry Mob? [/quote] Actually, I proposed adding the Hijacker some time back.

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, June 12, 2004 2:46:43 PM

[quote=Blbpaws]the design doc on the main page is only a first draft. It has already been internally revised. We're just not saying everything yet. [/quote] Then perhaps it's time we spoke out before we get a bunch of topics along the line of, "OMG Y U PUT [insert unit that we already decided to remove] IN TEH MOD I MEAN WTF WTF R U THINKING [insert profane word]!!!!111!1" [quote=Incia]Hijacker? Angry Mob? [/quote] Actually, I proposed adding the Hijacker some time back.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:31:56 PM
ok, CommieDog. We'll update that once I get out of school. lol

Posted by: Luckie - Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:32:27 PM
I like hijacker, but hackers are high tech as is the whole idea behind the Generals Elite.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 12, 2004 3:36:01 PM
right. My thinking was that Lotus was the most high tech of the heroes.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:34:09 PM
Hi-Tech? I thought from the first place that ION cannon was high-tech... but Generals army have SCUD Storm instead. And Missile defenders rocket launchers are more high-tech than Tank hunters RPG Launchers.

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:57:27 PM
I'd go with Black Lotus too. Col. Burton's heavy gun and C4 charges make him a lot like the Ghost Stalker. Jarmen Kell's sniper rifle bares some resemblance to Tanya's double pistols (though not as much as between Col. Burton and the Ghost Stalker). Black Lotus would be the most unique hero(ine) of the three. Plus, if we add the Hijacker and use Black Lotus, all three sides will be equally represented:[list] []USA: 2 (Ranger and Pathfinder) []China: 2 (Hacker and Black Lotus) [*]GLA: 2 (RPG Trooper and Hijacker) [/list] [quote=Luckie]hackers are high tech as is the whole idea behind the Generals Elite. [/quote] I though the theme behind the Gens was damage avoidance.

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, June 12, 2004 5:57:27 PM

I'd go with Black Lotus too. Col. Burton's heavy gun and C4 charges make him a lot like the Ghost Stalker. Jarmen Kell's sniper rifle bares some resemblance to Tanya's double pistols (though not as much as between Col. Burton and the Ghost Stalker). Black Lotus would be the most unique hero(ine) of the three. Plus, if we add the Hijacker and use Black Lotus, all three sides will be equally represented:[list] [*]USA: 2 (Ranger and Pathfinder) [*]China: 2 (Hacker and Black Lotus) [*]GLA: 2 (RPG Trooper and Hijacker) [/list] [quote=Luckie]hackers are high tech as is the whole idea behind the Generals Elite. [/quote] I though the theme behind the Gens was damage avoidance.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:13:18 PM
That list of yours CommieDog looks better [grin]

Posted by: Luckie - Saturday, June 12, 2004 6:37:04 PM
LoL. Commie, it is. But they go well hand in hand. Incia, the Generals Elite would want to inflict the most damage on their enemy and the least on themselves. Scud storm does a very wide range of damage. I think it's the most demoralizing of all the SW's.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, June 13, 2004 6:00:24 AM
I agree. We'll see about the suggestions.

Posted by: XrRydr - Monday, June 14, 2004 11:10:21 AM
Alright I am going to make some revisions to the unit and structure list to hopefully make this a better mod. Remember that there three things to look at when choosing units. 1. Balance. You don’t one team to have a significant advantage over another in any circumstance. 2. Theme. This makes the game interesting and creates different tactics to be used. 3. Diversity. Try to utilize the many different units from all of the C&C games. Minimize repeats across teams while maximizing unique units. I will run down on what I think on the current roster and make some changes. I will call GDI and NOD Team Tiberia because I think it sounds better than Tib Dawn/Sun/Firestorm. The theme isn’t clearly defined in the story, but I think that sneaky tactics fits best with the Tiberia Team. Most of the units will be nod units from what I can see, they fit more with the theme Infantry: everything looks ok but you should consider giving ghoststalker some C4 to make him more powerful and useful. Also, jump jet infantry would be sneaky. Medics would fit as well because infantry are small and sneaky and many of the operations will be led with infantry I would think. So, they would want to keep their infantry alive. Vehicles: First you should make sure to not make the flame tank a copy of the dragon tank. Consider lowering the price a bit to around 700 A new model and a possible new animation will do. Then, why 4 units instead of the traditional 5 on the apc? And perhaps 800 is a little much for the apc? 600 sounds better to me. Also, the apc should detect stealth. Next you should remove the medium and mammoth and put in the light tank and the stealth tank. Again theme works better now. MRLS is good but try not to make it too slow. If subterranean units are possible, then maybe you could do it with the flame and apc as it was in tib sun, but only if you can build something like pavement to prevent against engineer rushing with the apc. Also, maybe something like the Mobile Sensor Array from sun to help out the MRLS and to give them more intel? When it deploys, it’s viewing range increases to a large amount, maybe 1.5 screens? You should also consider adding the recon bike, it fits in very well. Maybe a lightly armored disruptor, to go along with ghoststalker and his railgun? Aircraft: These look fine, but maybe you should make the orca like the Comanche in that it reloads on it’s own and has a gun for infantry. Maybe some other feature like a charge up cannon or something. Structures: They all look good but the helipad is missing from the list. My only concern is anti-air. Will the guard tower missiles be sufficient to take out air threats? Also, make sure to at least give some differences to the ion cannon. Maybe bigger blast radius and more damage but is a one time thing with not movement? New animation would be good. Also try to give more of an incentive to get a Weed Refinery. Maybe some upgrades should be bought here? Would “Team U.N.” fit? Allies and Soviets are both groups of countries, put them together and you have even more countries. “Their tactics are somewhat undefined, but they pack a vengence.” I think “pack a vengeance” means that they fit in the brute force category. Infantry: For diversity, I would recommend having the G.I. instead of the conscript, and has more brute force. I think that grenadier would be better as well instead of the rocker soldier. As much as like the spy, the spy is not a brute force kinda guy. Maybe we should leave him in, but I dunno. If we did replace him then the chrono legionnaire would be good. If that isn’t possible, then you could use the desolator. Tanya works well here. Vehicles: Rhino is fine. I am thinking about having the prism tank instead of the V3, and lucky me, you have one done already on the screenshot page so I guess you already wanted to make that change. I think for variety you should use the flack track to replace both the apc and the gattling tank. Just make sure it isn’t useless against ground targets as it was RA2, maybe good against infantry/light vehicles. Also, the flack track should detect stealth. Apocalypse is fine but again don’t make it an overlord copy. We should try to put some allied vehicles in though. Maybe a chrono tank that erase from time like the legionnaire? If not possible, then maybe the battle fortress? Aircraft: Well I think you should take out the harrier. It just doesn’t fit. Kirov is good though. I think that the siege chopper should replace the apache, just make it so that has better range. Structures: Alright, they are missing base defense that can detect stealth and shoot down air! I suggest an air-only patriot missile battery. And make the flame tower detect stealth. Also, you should make all of the refineries cost the same. The only other thing I see is to turn the aircraft thing into just a radar tower, if you like my suggestions. Also, I noticed in the screenshot page a slave miner. I don’t think that it would be a good idea to have a slave miner. You should have a war miner, or just a truck instead. Generals Elite “they were big on lasers, bullets and explosives.” Sounds like a high-tech group to me. Infantry: Everything here is ok, but you might want to add the minigunner because it said that they like bullets, or maybe a laser infantry, or a terrorist. Vehicles: Ok, take out the battlemaster and the overlord. Take out the inferno cannon and put in the tomahawk. I think that the microwave tank would be good, but make be able to shut down vehicles as well. I am thinking that you could have a sentry drone, but it can also remain hidden while moving, and can transport infantry. Maybe you should give it a better weapon as well. Bomb truck is ok, but maybe make it explosive only. Aircraft: Good, but take out the helix and put in the stealth bomber. Structures: Everything looks fine. I hope this helps make it better, and I look forward to this mod. Feel free to comment and say what you think.

Posted by: XrRydr - Monday, June 14, 2004 11:10:21 AM

Alright I am going to make some revisions to the unit and structure list to hopefully make this a better mod. Remember that there three things to look at when choosing units. 1. Balance. You don’t one team to have a significant advantage over another in any circumstance. 2. Theme. This makes the game interesting and creates different tactics to be used. 3. Diversity. Try to utilize the many different units from all of the C&C games. Minimize repeats across teams while maximizing unique units. I will run down on what I think on the current roster and make some changes. I will call GDI and NOD Team Tiberia because I think it sounds better than Tib Dawn/Sun/Firestorm. The theme isn’t clearly defined in the story, but I think that sneaky tactics fits best with the Tiberia Team. Most of the units will be nod units from what I can see, they fit more with the theme Infantry: everything looks ok but you should consider giving ghoststalker some C4 to make him more powerful and useful. Also, jump jet infantry would be sneaky. Medics would fit as well because infantry are small and sneaky and many of the operations will be led with infantry I would think. So, they would want to keep their infantry alive. Vehicles: First you should make sure to not make the flame tank a copy of the dragon tank. Consider lowering the price a bit to around 700 A new model and a possible new animation will do. Then, why 4 units instead of the traditional 5 on the apc? And perhaps 800 is a little much for the apc? 600 sounds better to me. Also, the apc should detect stealth. Next you should remove the medium and mammoth and put in the light tank and the stealth tank. Again theme works better now. MRLS is good but try not to make it too slow. If subterranean units are possible, then maybe you could do it with the flame and apc as it was in tib sun, but only if you can build something like pavement to prevent against engineer rushing with the apc. Also, maybe something like the Mobile Sensor Array from sun to help out the MRLS and to give them more intel? When it deploys, it’s viewing range increases to a large amount, maybe 1.5 screens? You should also consider adding the recon bike, it fits in very well. Maybe a lightly armored disruptor, to go along with ghoststalker and his railgun? Aircraft: These look fine, but maybe you should make the orca like the Comanche in that it reloads on it’s own and has a gun for infantry. Maybe some other feature like a charge up cannon or something. Structures: They all look good but the helipad is missing from the list. My only concern is anti-air. Will the guard tower missiles be sufficient to take out air threats? Also, make sure to at least give some differences to the ion cannon. Maybe bigger blast radius and more damage but is a one time thing with not movement? New animation would be good. Also try to give more of an incentive to get a Weed Refinery. Maybe some upgrades should be bought here? Would “Team U.N.” fit? Allies and Soviets are both groups of countries, put them together and you have even more countries. “Their tactics are somewhat undefined, but they pack a vengence.” I think “pack a vengeance” means that they fit in the brute force category. Infantry: For diversity, I would recommend having the G.I. instead of the conscript, and has more brute force. I think that grenadier would be better as well instead of the rocker soldier. As much as like the spy, the spy is not a brute force kinda guy. Maybe we should leave him in, but I dunno. If we did replace him then the chrono legionnaire would be good. If that isn’t possible, then you could use the desolator. Tanya works well here. Vehicles: Rhino is fine. I am thinking about having the prism tank instead of the V3, and lucky me, you have one done already on the screenshot page so I guess you already wanted to make that change. I think for variety you should use the flack track to replace both the apc and the gattling tank. Just make sure it isn’t useless against ground targets as it was RA2, maybe good against infantry/light vehicles. Also, the flack track should detect stealth. Apocalypse is fine but again don’t make it an overlord copy. We should try to put some allied vehicles in though. Maybe a chrono tank that erase from time like the legionnaire? If not possible, then maybe the battle fortress? Aircraft: Well I think you should take out the harrier. It just doesn’t fit. Kirov is good though. I think that the siege chopper should replace the apache, just make it so that has better range. Structures: Alright, they are missing base defense that can detect stealth and shoot down air! I suggest an air-only patriot missile battery. And make the flame tower detect stealth. Also, you should make all of the refineries cost the same. The only other thing I see is to turn the aircraft thing into just a radar tower, if you like my suggestions. Also, I noticed in the screenshot page a slave miner. I don’t think that it would be a good idea to have a slave miner. You should have a war miner, or just a truck instead. Generals Elite “they were big on lasers, bullets and explosives.” Sounds like a high-tech group to me. Infantry: Everything here is ok, but you might want to add the minigunner because it said that they like bullets, or maybe a laser infantry, or a terrorist. Vehicles: Ok, take out the battlemaster and the overlord. Take out the inferno cannon and put in the tomahawk. I think that the microwave tank would be good, but make be able to shut down vehicles as well. I am thinking that you could have a sentry drone, but it can also remain hidden while moving, and can transport infantry. Maybe you should give it a better weapon as well. Bomb truck is ok, but maybe make it explosive only. Aircraft: Good, but take out the helix and put in the stealth bomber. Structures: Everything looks fine. I hope this helps make it better, and I look forward to this mod. Feel free to comment and say what you think.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, June 14, 2004 1:15:38 PM
wow. Impressive. Do you have any modding talents such as skinning or modelling or INI coding?

Posted by: XrRydr - Monday, June 14, 2004 1:33:01 PM
Lol, no I have never modded anything, I just like to download loads of stuff and play things differently. The closet thing I have done to modding is to edit some counter strike scripts. I really don't know how I could help with the mod other than any text related thing or suggestions. I could beta test lol. If someone were to teach me the rules of coding I could try to help, but I am not that great of an artist. I am just a guy who wants this to be a great mod, cause right now generals lacks some awe-inspiring mods that are fun to play. But just ask if you advice or anything.

Posted by: XrRydr - Monday, June 14, 2004 1:33:01 PM

Lol, no I have never modded anything, I just like to download loads of stuff and play things differently. The closet thing I have done to modding is to edit some counter strike scripts. I really don't know how I could help with the mod other than any text related thing or suggestions. I could beta test lol. If someone were to teach me the rules of coding I could try to help, but I am not that great of an artist. I am just a guy who wants this to be a great mod, cause right now generals lacks some awe-inspiring mods that are fun to play. But just ask if you advice or anything.

Posted by: incia - Monday, June 14, 2004 2:42:09 PM
BTW I just thought... if TS have flame throwers, RA Gattlings, can't Generals have toxin?, like Toxin rebel, and RA the mini-gunner (from ZH)...?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, June 14, 2004 3:39:38 PM
[quote=XrRydr] Lol, no I have never modded anything, I just like to download loads of stuff and play things differently. The closet thing I have done to modding is to edit some counter strike scripts. I really don't know how I could help with the mod other than any text related thing or suggestions. I could beta test lol. If someone were to teach me the rules of coding I could try to help, but I am not that great of an artist. I am just a guy who wants this to be a great mod, cause right now generals lacks some awe-inspiring mods that are fun to play. But just ask if you advice or anything. [/quote] OK. There are some great tutorials on www.deezire.net if you want to look. Possibly, Incia.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, June 14, 2004 3:39:38 PM

[quote=XrRydr] Lol, no I have never modded anything, I just like to download loads of stuff and play things differently. The closet thing I have done to modding is to edit some counter strike scripts. I really don't know how I could help with the mod other than any text related thing or suggestions. I could beta test lol. If someone were to teach me the rules of coding I could try to help, but I am not that great of an artist. I am just a guy who wants this to be a great mod, cause right now generals lacks some awe-inspiring mods that are fun to play. But just ask if you advice or anything. [/quote] OK. There are some great tutorials on www.deezire.net if you want to look. Possibly, Incia.

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:35:49 AM
Holy ***! [open_mouth] Actual comprehensive comments on the All Stars ideas list! It's time for another one of my lengthy lists:[list] []Ghost Stalker -- We were playing around with the idea of giving him C4s as an upgrade. []Medic -- 4 infantry does look a little skimpy...But it's hard to model soldiers. []Flame Tank -- A new model is certain. We just haven't decided on the TD or TS model. We'd try to keep to the original price (wasn't that 900?) []APC -- We want to avoid making a Troop Crawler clone. I agree about the number of passengers, though, and I would lower the price to 700. []Medium Tank -- We already decided to replace it with the Titan. []Mammoth Tank -- I wouldn't mind replacing with with the Mammoth Mk. II as a general's promotion. []Light Tank -- We don't want too many Nod units. []Stealth Tank -- I had proposed this as a general's promotion. []Engineer -- We currently have no plans to add the Engineer. It would create serious balancing issues. []Mobile Sensor Array -- It's a little too specialized for Generals. []MLRS -- Well, it's supposed to be artillery. []Recon Bike -- I agree, it would make a good stealth-detecting/basic anti-aircraft unit. []Disruptor -- It would be good as siege artillery. We'll have to see if there's any room for it. []ORCA Fighter -- We don't want Comanche clones now...But it would be a headache to have two similar pad aircraft. And the charge cannon might make a good upgrade. []Helipad -- It goes without saying that helicopters demand a helipad. But good job for pointing out that lapse. And bad job Blbpaws for leting the lapse slip in there in the first place![angry] []Guard Tower -- I haven't even begun to code Tiberian units, so I can't say how powerful the missiles will be. But I intend to make them good enough to be the Tiberian's sole anti-aircraft defense, since that is what the list calls for. []Ion Cannon -- I have no idea how we will do this. [*]Weed Refinery -- I always thought that there was more than enough incentive to build Supply Drop Zones in Generals. Still, A tiberium-themed upgrade would be a nice touch. [/list]Whew! I'll do the rest tomorrow. XrRydr, If you have this much to say about the units and buildings, them you must be teeming with ideas for upgrades and general's powers. Please share them![smile]

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:35:49 AM

Holy ****! [open_mouth] Actual comprehensive comments on the All Stars ideas list! It's time for another one of my lengthy lists:[list] [*]Ghost Stalker -- We were playing around with the idea of giving him C4s as an upgrade. [*]Medic -- 4 infantry does look a little skimpy...But it's hard to model soldiers. [*]Flame Tank -- A new model is certain. We just haven't decided on the TD or TS model. We'd try to keep to the original price (wasn't that 900?) [*]APC -- We want to avoid making a Troop Crawler clone. I agree about the number of passengers, though, and I would lower the price to 700. [*]Medium Tank -- We already decided to replace it with the Titan. [*]Mammoth Tank -- I wouldn't mind replacing with with the Mammoth Mk. II as a general's promotion. [*]Light Tank -- We don't want too many Nod units. [*]Stealth Tank -- I had proposed this as a general's promotion. [*]Engineer -- We currently have no plans to add the Engineer. It would create serious balancing issues. [*]Mobile Sensor Array -- It's a little too specialized for Generals. [*]MLRS -- Well, it's supposed to be artillery. [*]Recon Bike -- I agree, it would make a good stealth-detecting/basic anti-aircraft unit. [*]Disruptor -- It would be good as siege artillery. We'll have to see if there's any room for it. [*]ORCA Fighter -- We don't want Comanche clones now...But it would be a headache to have two similar pad aircraft. And the charge cannon might make a good upgrade. [*]Helipad -- It goes without saying that helicopters demand a helipad. But good job for pointing out that lapse. And bad job Blbpaws for leting the lapse slip in there in the first place![angry] [*]Guard Tower -- I haven't even begun to code Tiberian units, so I can't say how powerful the missiles will be. But I intend to make them good enough to be the Tiberian's sole anti-aircraft defense, since that is what the list calls for. [*]Ion Cannon -- I have no idea how we will do this. [*]Weed Refinery -- I always thought that there was more than enough incentive to build Supply Drop Zones in Generals. Still, A tiberium-themed upgrade would be a nice touch. [/list]Whew! I'll do the rest tomorrow. XrRydr, If you have this much to say about the units and buildings, them you must be teeming with ideas for upgrades and general's powers. Please share them![smile]

Posted by: incia - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 9:23:30 AM
Flame tanks cost: 800

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:50:49 AM
[quote=CommieDog] Helipad -- It goes without saying that helicopters demand a helipad. But good job for pointing out that lapse. And bad job Blbpaws for leting the lapse slip in there in the first place![angry][/*] [/quote] FYI in teh staff forum one the Helipad is in there. I realized my error after Mic and I set up the site so I corrected it on my Harddrive. Then when I uploaded it to the staff forum, the Helipad was in. So there! lol.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 11:50:49 AM

[quote=CommieDog] Helipad -- It goes without saying that helicopters demand a helipad. But good job for pointing out that lapse. And bad job Blbpaws for leting the lapse slip in there in the first place![angry][/*] [/quote] FYI in teh staff forum one the Helipad is in there. I realized my error after Mic and I set up the site so I corrected it on my Harddrive. Then when I uploaded it to the staff forum, the Helipad was in. So there! lol.

Posted by: XrRydr - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:09:44 PM
Honestly, I never thought about the upgrades and general powers but here are some ideas. But before I get started I have to say that I really don't think it would be a good idea for team tiberia to have those heavy tanks like the mammoth. You should really only have one team that is brute force themed and having tiberia have a mammoth and the red alert team have an apocylpse is redundant... but it's your mod so you can if you want. Well of course all of the barracks will have the capture upgrade for their basic unit. I think it would be cool to give the minigunner a shotgun upgrade which would be powerful at short range (there was a shotgun trooper in renegade). Yes, a c4 upgrade would probably be good for ghoststalker. Well I suppose 4 infantry it okay, but if you can more would be good. I think some sort of upgrade for a vehicle like a hum-vee or a tank should let it shoot in the air because I can't see any tiberia vehicles that shoot in the air right now, unless the mrls can. An upgrade to increase speed of treaded vehicles would be good. The charge cannon for the orca would really have no relation to C&C but it would still be good for hit and run tactics. It would function somewhat like the yamato gun on the battlecruiser from starcraft if you ever played that game, making a good upgrade.You could also add an upgrade to let the bomber carry to extra bombs. And as far as the weed refinery goes I think it would be good to have this be the ghostalker building. Maybe you wouldn't need this to build him, but could hold the c4 upgrade, and some other things like where ever he walks he spreads tiberium (toxin). Then maybe another upgrade that lets bombers add tiberium to their bombs. For generals powers their could be a drop pod thing where soldiers are sent from the phildelphia, with three levels perhaps? Then there could be a stealth tank ambush where either 5 stealth tanks appear anywhere, or there could also be levels. If you did make the mammoth mark 2 it should that a general power, possible a build limit. If you made the disruptor that should also be bought with a point. There could a chemical missile which would spread tiberium as a general power. There could also be a banshee strike. There could also be something like a MSA reveal where it could act like the satellite from the USA but it would work a little longer so that it could be worth a point. I'll wait until you talk about the red alert and generals units to talk about their upgrades and powers.

Posted by: XrRydr - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:09:44 PM

Honestly, I never thought about the upgrades and general powers but here are some ideas. But before I get started I have to say that I really don't think it would be a good idea for team tiberia to have those heavy tanks like the mammoth. You should really only have one team that is brute force themed and having tiberia have a mammoth and the red alert team have an apocylpse is redundant... but it's your mod so you can if you want. Well of course all of the barracks will have the capture upgrade for their basic unit. I think it would be cool to give the minigunner a shotgun upgrade which would be powerful at short range (there was a shotgun trooper in renegade). Yes, a c4 upgrade would probably be good for ghoststalker. Well I suppose 4 infantry it okay, but if you can more would be good. I think some sort of upgrade for a vehicle like a hum-vee or a tank should let it shoot in the air because I can't see any tiberia vehicles that shoot in the air right now, unless the mrls can. An upgrade to increase speed of treaded vehicles would be good. The charge cannon for the orca would really have no relation to C&C but it would still be good for hit and run tactics. It would function somewhat like the yamato gun on the battlecruiser from starcraft if you ever played that game, making a good upgrade.You could also add an upgrade to let the bomber carry to extra bombs. And as far as the weed refinery goes I think it would be good to have this be the ghostalker building. Maybe you wouldn't need this to build him, but could hold the c4 upgrade, and some other things like where ever he walks he spreads tiberium (toxin). Then maybe another upgrade that lets bombers add tiberium to their bombs. For generals powers their could be a drop pod thing where soldiers are sent from the phildelphia, with three levels perhaps? Then there could be a stealth tank ambush where either 5 stealth tanks appear anywhere, or there could also be levels. If you did make the mammoth mark 2 it should that a general power, possible a build limit. If you made the disruptor that should also be bought with a point. There could a chemical missile which would spread tiberium as a general power. There could also be a banshee strike. There could also be something like a MSA reveal where it could act like the satellite from the USA but it would work a little longer so that it could be worth a point. I'll wait until you talk about the red alert and generals units to talk about their upgrades and powers.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:28:42 PM
alright, sounds good. Thanks for your help.

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:29:27 PM
[quote=Blbpaws]FYI in teh staff forum one the Helipad is in there. I realized my error after Mic and I set up the site so I corrected it on my Harddrive. Then when I uploaded it to the staff forum, the Helipad was in. So there! lol. [/quote] I'm talking about the public one, since it it the list that XrRydr seemed to be looking at. And don't mistake that smiley for rage -- I'm too mad at having my \|33+ \|-\|4x0R post vanishing. [grimacing] Anyway, time for another big list! [smile][list] []Red Tactics -- Actually, the Tiberians were supposed to be the 'brute force' side. []GI -- I'm not sure about this one. The GI's deploy feature was nice, but Conscript rushes were fun. []Grenadier -- It's kind of hard to hit aircraft with grenades. [smile] []Spy -- If I remember correctly, the Red Alert team's tactics were highly specialized units and intelligence superiority. I had a limpet mine upgrade idea for the Spy that would fit the second one perfectly. []Chrono Legionnaire -- Not possible, at least as far as I know. []Desolator -- Hmmm... []Rhino -- We already decided to replace it with the Grizzly. []V3 -- We still want to keep the V3 as siege artillery, while making the Prism Tank into support artillery. []Flak Track -- This is a sticky problem for me. I like flak, and as Incia pointed out, we don't have any. But I like the Gattling Tank too, and two low-tech anti-aircraft units would be redundant. But I hate the APC (which we already have for the Tiberians) and would be glad to be rid of it for the Reds. []Apocalypse -- No turret upgrades, I promise. And likely no vehicle-crushing ability, either. []Chrono Tank -- We want to bring old units back in this mod, not add new ones. Also see comment on Chrono Legionnaire. []Battle Fortress -- That would be fun as a general's promotion, but only with some good infantry to fill it. []Harrier -- I would be uncomfortable with one side having no pad-based aircraft. We could always slow it down a bit and give it more armor to make it feel different than a Raptor. []Siege Chopper -- one of the staff members proposed this, but it was turned down due to impossibility. Generals doesn't have a real deploy function that allows units to change their altitude. Plus, we're low on RA1 units. []Patriot Battery -- We decided on the AA Gun because it would be a bit more unique, considering that the Tiberian Guard Tower will shoot missiles. []Flame Tower -- I'd imagine that we would make every defense structure detect stealth, except for maybe the AA Gun. []Slave Miner -- What's wrong with it? It would certainly be more unique than a simple harvester. []Generals Tactics -- Yeah, bullets and explosives are so high-tech that even the low-tech GLA has them. [smile] []Minigunner -- I'm not sure about this one, but with the limited space we have we need to select units that protray an entire side, not a general or country. []Laser Infantry -- See Chrono Tank. []Terrorist -- A little redundant with the Bomb Truck. []Battlemaster -- Certainly we have too many tanks for the Generals side. I'd prefer to take out the Paladin as well and put the Scorpion in for both of them. []Overlord -- Why remove it? []Inferno Cannon -- I agree. []Microwave Tank -- If you want vehicle disabling, then maybe the ECM Tank would be better. []Sentry Drone -- The fact that you have to suggest all those improvments for it reflects how much of a worthless POS that unit is. [angry] It's slow, weakly armored, and has an overpriced crappy gun that does nothing but give its position away. I ought to...Oops, I'm ranting again. [disappointed] We already have all the functions it would provide in other units: stealth detection from the Radar Van, trasnport from the Chinook, and weak gun courtesy of the Ranger. []Bomb Truck -- Why no bio-bonb upgrade? []Helix -- I can see that the Helix conflicts with the Overlord, but why the Stealth Fighter? [/list]

Posted by: CommieDog - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 5:29:27 PM

[quote=Blbpaws]FYI in teh staff forum one the Helipad is in there. I realized my error after Mic and I set up the site so I corrected it on my Harddrive. Then when I uploaded it to the staff forum, the Helipad was in. So there! lol. [/quote] I'm talking about the public one, since it it the list that XrRydr seemed to be looking at. And don't mistake that smiley for rage -- I'm too mad at having my |33+ |-|4x0R post vanishing. [grimacing] Anyway, time for another big list! [smile][list] [*]Red Tactics -- Actually, the Tiberians were supposed to be the 'brute force' side. [*]GI -- I'm not sure about this one. The GI's deploy feature was nice, but Conscript rushes were fun. [*]Grenadier -- It's kind of hard to hit aircraft with grenades. [smile] [*]Spy -- If I remember correctly, the Red Alert team's tactics were highly specialized units and intelligence superiority. I had a limpet mine upgrade idea for the Spy that would fit the second one perfectly. [*]Chrono Legionnaire -- Not possible, at least as far as I know. [*]Desolator -- Hmmm... [*]Rhino -- We already decided to replace it with the Grizzly. [*]V3 -- We still want to keep the V3 as siege artillery, while making the Prism Tank into support artillery. [*]Flak Track -- This is a sticky problem for me. I like flak, and as Incia pointed out, we don't have any. But I like the Gattling Tank too, and two low-tech anti-aircraft units would be redundant. But I hate the APC (which we already have for the Tiberians) and would be glad to be rid of it for the Reds. [*]Apocalypse -- No turret upgrades, I promise. And likely no vehicle-crushing ability, either. [*]Chrono Tank -- We want to bring old units back in this mod, not add new ones. Also see comment on Chrono Legionnaire. [*]Battle Fortress -- That would be fun as a general's promotion, but only with some good infantry to fill it. [*]Harrier -- I would be uncomfortable with one side having no pad-based aircraft. We could always slow it down a bit and give it more armor to make it feel different than a Raptor. [*]Siege Chopper -- one of the staff members proposed this, but it was turned down due to impossibility. Generals doesn't have a real deploy function that allows units to change their altitude. Plus, we're low on RA1 units. [*]Patriot Battery -- We decided on the AA Gun because it would be a bit more unique, considering that the Tiberian Guard Tower will shoot missiles. [*]Flame Tower -- I'd imagine that we would make every defense structure detect stealth, except for maybe the AA Gun. [*]Slave Miner -- What's wrong with it? It would certainly be more unique than a simple harvester. [*]Generals Tactics -- Yeah, bullets and explosives are so high-tech that even the low-tech GLA has them. [smile] [*]Minigunner -- I'm not sure about this one, but with the limited space we have we need to select units that protray an entire side, not a general or country. [*]Laser Infantry -- See Chrono Tank. [*]Terrorist -- A little redundant with the Bomb Truck. [*]Battlemaster -- Certainly we have too many tanks for the Generals side. I'd prefer to take out the Paladin as well and put the Scorpion in for both of them. [*]Overlord -- Why remove it? [*]Inferno Cannon -- I agree. [*]Microwave Tank -- If you want vehicle disabling, then maybe the ECM Tank would be better. [*]Sentry Drone -- The fact that you have to suggest all those improvments for it reflects how much of a worthless POS that unit is. [angry] It's slow, weakly armored, and has an overpriced crappy gun that does nothing but give its position away. I ought to...Oops, I'm ranting again. [disappointed] We already have all the functions it would provide in other units: stealth detection from the Radar Van, trasnport from the Chinook, and weak gun courtesy of the Ranger. [*]Bomb Truck -- Why no bio-bonb upgrade? [*]Helix -- I can see that the Helix conflicts with the Overlord, but why the Stealth Fighter? [/list]

Posted by: Luckie - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:23:08 PM
Why not give each side a heavy tank, then offer each one a special upgrade that will give it a special advantage. Make each heavy tank have very little effect on other heavy tanks, that way it adds more special tactics to the game play. Suggestions would be like: Defensive: Apocalypse Tank: Bullet Proof Armour (50% reduction in damage by bullets, built at side's upgrade center thing) Mammoth Tank: Bullet Proof Armour (50% reduction in damage by bullets, built at side's upgrade center thing) Overlord Tank: Super Metal (heals self very slighty after each shot, built at side's upgrade center thing) Offensive: Apocalypse Tank: Auto Loading (Increased firing speed by XX%, built at side's upgrade center thing) Mammoth Tank: Mined Shots (Alternative Fire Mode for a target area, must be purchased at the upgrade center. Shoots 3 mines at a time) Overlord Tank: Turret Gun (same as in generals)

Posted by: Luckie - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:23:08 PM

Why not give each side a heavy tank, then offer each one a special upgrade that will give it a special advantage. Make each heavy tank have very little effect on other heavy tanks, that way it adds more special tactics to the game play. Suggestions would be like: Defensive: Apocalypse Tank: Bullet Proof Armour (50% reduction in damage by bullets, built at side's upgrade center thing) Mammoth Tank: Bullet Proof Armour (50% reduction in damage by bullets, built at side's upgrade center thing) Overlord Tank: Super Metal (heals self very slighty after each shot, built at side's upgrade center thing) Offensive: Apocalypse Tank: Auto Loading (Increased firing speed by XX%, built at side's upgrade center thing) Mammoth Tank: Mined Shots (Alternative Fire Mode for a target area, must be purchased at the upgrade center. Shoots 3 mines at a time) Overlord Tank: Turret Gun (same as in generals)

Posted by: XrRydr - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:59:28 PM
lol this is turning into some sort of heated debate. Well about your "heavy tank" idea... I really don't like the idea of all three sides having a two-barrled, slow-moving, powerful monster. That is the characteristic of a brute force army and to have in all of them would just make things boring. But before I go further we to clear up on a few things. What are the aims of mod exactly? I was making a lot of guesses as to what I would be cool and make it more fun, not as to what you want, because I didn't know what you want. What do you want as far as the themes for each team? But what you will surely need to stress is diversity. Having units that appear across the teams that are nearly the same are no fun at all. You should have teams that have some types of units where they are strong at, and some units where they are weak at. Like in tiberian sun, nod had incredible artillery, gdi did not. gdi had great tanks and brute force, nod did not. And in RA2, they gave Soviets brute force and a powerful artillery unit and it was still balanced. You shouldn't feel like all teams should have good units for all situations. If all teams could attack brute force, or sneakily, or with good air or whatever, there would be no diversity or fun tactics to be made. I just say this because I see that you are suggesting units that would follow the no weakness sort of gameplay. It's the things like all teams having massive tanks, or all teams having powerful artillery, or all teams having pad based aircraft. But if that is what you want then tell me and I can give you ideas on how to choose good units and ideas based on that. I don't want to make ideas based on thinking that you don't like. I mean, if you want it to be truly an all-star type thing where the best of all of those type of units come together then that is ok, and I can adjust to that. I just think it would be more fun if each team had major strenghts and weaknesses that are obvious. A good example is the GLA. They are a very specialized team in that they have no air or any powereful tanks, and they have workers instead of dozers. They also specialize more in more cheaper units instead of less, more powerful units. But they also have no power plants to worry about, and the buildings have holes. They can also be sneaky, and can use tunnel networks. Themes for each team can make it more fun. So just tell me what you are thinking as far as your goal for this mod. Also, try to update somewhere if you are adding new units. You never said that generals elite would have the radar van. Anyways, I think that the helix is overpowered anyway, but elite needed more air and I thought that stealth bomber would be more interesting than a raptor, and they already had the mig. I only said the microwave tank because they already had lots of china units. I said explosives only on the bomb truck because in the stroyline it said that they were big on explosives, and so that fit. Same thign for terrorist. Scorpion would be fine for generals. And I only suggested Grenadier because like I said it's ok for teams to have weaknesses. In red alert the soviets didn't have any anti-air infantry and they lived to tell about it lol. Getting the feeling that I tend to make long posts?

Posted by: XrRydr - Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:59:28 PM

lol this is turning into some sort of heated debate. Well about your "heavy tank" idea... I really don't like the idea of all three sides having a two-barrled, slow-moving, powerful monster. That is the characteristic of a brute force army and to have in all of them would just make things boring. But before I go further we to clear up on a few things. What are the aims of mod exactly? I was making a lot of guesses as to what *I* would be cool and make it more fun, not as to what you want, because I didn't know what you want. What do you want as far as the themes for each team? But what you will surely need to stress is diversity. Having units that appear across the teams that are nearly the same are no fun at all. You should have teams that have some types of units where they are strong at, and some units where they are weak at. Like in tiberian sun, nod had incredible artillery, gdi did not. gdi had great tanks and brute force, nod did not. And in RA2, they gave Soviets brute force and a powerful artillery unit and it was still balanced. You shouldn't feel like all teams should have good units for all situations. If all teams could attack brute force, or sneakily, or with good air or whatever, there would be no diversity or fun tactics to be made. I just say this because I see that you are suggesting units that would follow the no weakness sort of gameplay. It's the things like all teams having massive tanks, or all teams having powerful artillery, or all teams having pad based aircraft. But if that is what you want then tell me and I can give you ideas on how to choose good units and ideas based on that. I don't want to make ideas based on thinking that you don't like. I mean, if you want it to be truly an all-star type thing where the best of all of those type of units come together then that is ok, and I can adjust to that. I just think it would be more fun if each team had major strenghts and weaknesses that are obvious. A good example is the GLA. They are a very specialized team in that they have no air or any powereful tanks, and they have workers instead of dozers. They also specialize more in more cheaper units instead of less, more powerful units. But they also have no power plants to worry about, and the buildings have holes. They can also be sneaky, and can use tunnel networks. Themes for each team can make it more fun. So just tell me what you are thinking as far as your goal for this mod. Also, try to update somewhere if you are adding new units. You never said that generals elite would have the radar van. Anyways, I think that the helix is overpowered anyway, but elite needed more air and I thought that stealth bomber would be more interesting than a raptor, and they already had the mig. I only said the microwave tank because they already had lots of china units. I said explosives only on the bomb truck because in the stroyline it said that they were big on explosives, and so that fit. Same thign for terrorist. Scorpion would be fine for generals. And I only suggested Grenadier because like I said it's ok for teams to have weaknesses. In red alert the soviets didn't have any anti-air infantry and they lived to tell about it lol. Getting the feeling that I tend to make long posts?

Posted by: CommieDog - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:06:05 AM
[quote=XrRydr]lol this is turning into some sort of heated debate. [/quote] If only I could let you see the staff forums... [quote=XrRydr]Well about your "heavy tank" idea... I really don't like the idea of all three sides having a two-barrled, slow-moving, powerful monster. That is the characteristic of a brute force army and to have in all of them would just make things boring. [/quote] Like it or hate it, every CnC game to date as a slow-moving, double-barreled tank (except TS, but RA had two to make up for it). It's a classic element in CnC, and no side would be properly represented without it. Which brings us to... [quote=XrRydr]But before I go further we to clear up on a few things. What are the aims of mod exactly? I was making a lot of guesses as to what I would be cool and make it more fun, not as to what you want, because I didn't know what you want. What do you want as far as the themes for each team? But what you will surely need to stress is diversity. Having units that appear across the teams that are nearly the same are no fun at all. You should have teams that have some types of units where they are strong at, and some units where they are weak at. [/quote] That's the tightrope we have to walk when we plan this mod. If we make the sides too homogenous, then we will get complaints of, "WTF ALL TEH SIDES R TEH SAME Y DID U MAKE 3 SIDES IF THEIR JUST TEH SAME [zipper_mouth]!!!!!!1111!!11q" (I'm not trying to imply that you sound like this, it's just a dramatization to get the point across.) If we give each side a definite theme, like sneakiness for the Tiberians, then we hear, "OMFG U SAID TEH SIDES COME FROM BOTH SIDES IN A STORY BUT AL I SEE R NOD UNITS 4 TEH TIBS [zipper_mouth]1!!!!11!1w" We have to strike a balance somewhere, even if that means being flamed by both sides. [quote=XrRydr]And in RA2, they gave Soviets brute force and a powerful artillery unit and it was still balanced. [/quote] I'd hardly call the V3 'powerful.' The rocket just took too long to reload and was too easily shot down. [quote=XrRydr]I just say this because I see that you are suggesting units that would follow the no weakness sort of gameplay. It's the things like all teams having massive tanks, or all teams having powerful artillery, or all teams having pad based aircraft. [/quote] But think about what would happen in a side that had no siege artillery fought against a side that specializes in base defenses. There would be no strategy; the person with no artillery would only be able to win by rushing the base defense player before they could build a solid defensive line. Once the player was well defended, they could slowly wear down the no artillery player and win. Strategy in this case is choosing the right side, and the game becomes a glorified verson of rock-paper-scissors. This is the pitfall of heterogenuity, and Zero Hour was ruined by it. (The example was Tank General vs SW General.) [quote=XrRydr]I just think it would be more fun if each team had major strenghts and weaknesses that are obvious. A good example is the GLA. They are a very specialized team in that they have no air or any powereful tanks, and they have workers instead of dozers. They also specialize more in more cheaper units instead of less, more powerful units. But they also have no power plants to worry about, and the buildings have holes. They can also be sneaky, and can use tunnel networks. [/quote] I always felt that the GLA were out of place in Generals. They seemed more specialized than either the USA or China. So much, in fact, that one wonders if EAP mixed them up at one point (is that why the MiG is so strong and the Raptor so weak?) Plus their specialties worked straight into the rock-paper-scissors system: China was baffled by their movements, but the USA could pick them out easily. [quote=XrRydr]Also, try to update somewhere if you are adding new units. You never said that generals elite would have the radar van. [/quote] I told you so, Blbpaws. At least he was nice about it. [smile] [quote=XrRydr]And I only suggested Grenadier because like I said it's ok for teams to have weaknesses. In red alert the soviets didn't have any anti-air infantry and they lived to tell about it lol. [/quote] Didn't they lose the war, though? I MEAN UNBALANCD!!!!!1111!!1one11!!! [smile] And now for yet another list ([smirk]) of comments:[list] []Helix -- Even Helix massers agree that the Helix is overpowered. They just disagree with the rest of us on whether that's a good or bad thing. We could tweak it a bit if we decided to add it. But now I'm thinking that they use the same system of upgrades and are not diverse. []Stealth Fighters -- Both the Stealth Fighter and Aurora are primarily anti-structure. I wouldn't have a problem with one of them, but having both means that they will step on each other's toes in terms of usefulness. []Microwave Tank -- If a side has too many units from another side, it's worth taking a look to see if those units can be replaced rather than having to adapt another side's unit to fit a particular role. []Bomb Truck -- Just because they're big on explosives doesn't mean they have to be small on toxins. We're trying to put the entire GLA into the Generals Elite, not just the Demo General. Dr. Thraxx might not like that. [smile] []Terrorist -- See above. [/list] Anyway, now for my compromise on the Heavy Tank issue:[list=a] []Tibs: The Tiberians may seem a bit short-changed in this category -- they don't get a conventional two shooter. They get something more powerful instead: The Mammoth Mk. II. But they have to expend a Generals' Point to get it, and only one can be deployed at a time. []Reds: The Red Alert team gets an offense-oriented Apocalpse: not as much armor as the Overlord, but more powerful tank shells. It would be a good unit to lead the charge. []Gens: Generals Elite receives the Overlord, tweaked with more armor but less firepower. It becomes more of a meat shield unit, either transporting infantry (Bunker), healing nearby units (Propaganda Tower), or deciding to carry a more offense-themed unit into battle (Gattling Cannon). [/list]

Posted by: CommieDog - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:06:05 AM

[quote=XrRydr]lol this is turning into some sort of heated debate. [/quote] If only I could let you see the staff forums... [quote=XrRydr]Well about your "heavy tank" idea... I really don't like the idea of all three sides having a two-barrled, slow-moving, powerful monster. That is the characteristic of a brute force army and to have in all of them would just make things boring. [/quote] Like it or hate it, every CnC game to date as a slow-moving, double-barreled tank (except TS, but RA had two to make up for it). It's a classic element in CnC, and no side would be properly represented without it. Which brings us to... [quote=XrRydr]But before I go further we to clear up on a few things. What are the aims of mod exactly? I was making a lot of guesses as to what *I* would be cool and make it more fun, not as to what you want, because I didn't know what you want. What do you want as far as the themes for each team? But what you will surely need to stress is diversity. Having units that appear across the teams that are nearly the same are no fun at all. You should have teams that have some types of units where they are strong at, and some units where they are weak at. [/quote] That's the tightrope we have to walk when we plan this mod. If we make the sides too homogenous, then we will get complaints of, "WTF ALL TEH SIDES R TEH SAME Y DID U MAKE 3 SIDES IF THEIR JUST TEH SAME [zipper_mouth]!!!!!!1111!!11q" (I'm not trying to imply that you sound like this, it's just a dramatization to get the point across.) If we give each side a definite theme, like sneakiness for the Tiberians, then we hear, "OMFG U SAID TEH SIDES COME FROM BOTH SIDES IN A STORY BUT AL I SEE R NOD UNITS 4 TEH TIBS [zipper_mouth]1!!!!11!1w" We have to strike a balance somewhere, even if that means being flamed by both sides. [quote=XrRydr]And in RA2, they gave Soviets brute force and a powerful artillery unit and it was still balanced. [/quote] I'd hardly call the V3 'powerful.' The rocket just took too long to reload and was too easily shot down. [quote=XrRydr]I just say this because I see that you are suggesting units that would follow the no weakness sort of gameplay. It's the things like all teams having massive tanks, or all teams having powerful artillery, or all teams having pad based aircraft. [/quote] But think about what would happen in a side that had no siege artillery fought against a side that specializes in base defenses. There would be no strategy; the person with no artillery would only be able to win by rushing the base defense player before they could build a solid defensive line. Once the player was well defended, they could slowly wear down the no artillery player and win. Strategy in this case is choosing the right side, and the game becomes a glorified verson of rock-paper-scissors. This is the pitfall of heterogenuity, and Zero Hour was ruined by it. (The example was Tank General vs SW General.) [quote=XrRydr]I just think it would be more fun if each team had major strenghts and weaknesses that are obvious. A good example is the GLA. They are a very specialized team in that they have no air or any powereful tanks, and they have workers instead of dozers. They also specialize more in more cheaper units instead of less, more powerful units. But they also have no power plants to worry about, and the buildings have holes. They can also be sneaky, and can use tunnel networks. [/quote] I always felt that the GLA were out of place in Generals. They seemed more specialized than either the USA or China. So much, in fact, that one wonders if EAP mixed them up at one point (is that why the MiG is so strong and the Raptor so weak?) Plus their specialties worked straight into the rock-paper-scissors system: China was baffled by their movements, but the USA could pick them out easily. [quote=XrRydr]Also, try to update somewhere if you are adding new units. You never said that generals elite would have the radar van. [/quote] I told you so, Blbpaws. At least he was nice about it. [smile] [quote=XrRydr]And I only suggested Grenadier because like I said it's ok for teams to have weaknesses. In red alert the soviets didn't have any anti-air infantry and they lived to tell about it lol. [/quote] Didn't they lose the war, though? I MEAN UNBALANCD!!!!!1111!!1one11!!! [smile] And now for yet another list ([smirk]) of comments:[list] [*]Helix -- Even Helix massers agree that the Helix is overpowered. They just disagree with the rest of us on whether that's a good or bad thing. We could tweak it a bit if we decided to add it. But now I'm thinking that they use the same system of upgrades and are not diverse. [*]Stealth Fighters -- Both the Stealth Fighter and Aurora are primarily anti-structure. I wouldn't have a problem with one of them, but having both means that they will step on each other's toes in terms of usefulness. [*]Microwave Tank -- If a side has too many units from another side, it's worth taking a look to see if those units can be replaced rather than having to adapt another side's unit to fit a particular role. [*]Bomb Truck -- Just because they're big on explosives doesn't mean they have to be small on toxins. We're trying to put the entire GLA into the Generals Elite, not just the Demo General. Dr. Thraxx might not like that. [smile] [*]Terrorist -- See above. [/list] Anyway, now for my compromise on the Heavy Tank issue:[list=a] [*]Tibs: The Tiberians may seem a bit short-changed in this category -- they don't get a conventional two shooter. They get something more powerful instead: The Mammoth Mk. II. But they have to expend a Generals' Point to get it, and only one can be deployed at a time. [*]Reds: The Red Alert team gets an offense-oriented Apocalpse: not as much armor as the Overlord, but more powerful tank shells. It would be a good unit to lead the charge. [*]Gens: Generals Elite receives the Overlord, tweaked with more armor but less firepower. It becomes more of a meat shield unit, either transporting infantry (Bunker), healing nearby units (Propaganda Tower), or deciding to carry a more offense-themed unit into battle (Gattling Cannon). [/list]

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:07:50 AM
And the Overlord will be able to crush enemy tanks... will the Mammoth Mark do the same? And Overlord able to heal surrounding units by Prop tower. Apocalypse (did they auto-heal?). AA-rockets. Mammoth mark did auto-heal to 100% health. Also dual rail-guns and AA-rockets. I propouse some units: SSM: Surface-to-surface missile launcher: Shoots 2 long ranged missiles, makes an inferno when hitting a target. NOD buggy: same as hum-vee but faster and less armour. Chem-Warrior: Maybe replace with Toxin rebel? Advanced Communication Centre: Would give access to ION cannon and run the radar at the same time. KILL THE "SILOS NEEDED!" IDEA Advanced Guard tower: Maybe shoot a rocket barrage like Rocket buggy??? A-10 support air craft attack as a general promotion. ORCA: Same as Comanchee except without the chain-gun. Apache: Same as comanchee except without the rockets. Grenade as an upgrade for Tiberiun first infantry. Would be like flash-bangs but hurt both infantries and tanks, not able to clear out garrisoned buildings. Repair facility: This would bring fun old times back!!! Turret: Same barrel as one Medium tank, but cheaper and able to be repaired. And maybe Construction Yard... that was the biggest thing in C&C. Flame tank renamed to Devils tongue flame tank: Not able to do fire wall. Has 2 barrelled flame barrels. 2X stronger as Dragon tank. Nationalism upgrade for RA. Generals if they are so high-tech they should have AP bullets & rockets. Tiberian can maybe have the advanced training upgrade.

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:07:50 AM

And the Overlord will be able to crush enemy tanks... will the Mammoth Mark do the same? And Overlord able to heal surrounding units by Prop tower. Apocalypse (did they auto-heal?). AA-rockets. Mammoth mark did auto-heal to 100% health. Also dual rail-guns and AA-rockets. I propouse some units: SSM: Surface-to-surface missile launcher: Shoots 2 long ranged missiles, makes an inferno when hitting a target. NOD buggy: same as hum-vee but faster and less armour. Chem-Warrior: Maybe replace with Toxin rebel? Advanced Communication Centre: Would give access to ION cannon and run the radar at the same time. KILL THE "SILOS NEEDED!" IDEA Advanced Guard tower: Maybe shoot a rocket barrage like Rocket buggy??? A-10 support air craft attack as a general promotion. ORCA: Same as Comanchee except without the chain-gun. Apache: Same as comanchee except without the rockets. Grenade as an upgrade for Tiberiun first infantry. Would be like flash-bangs but hurt both infantries and tanks, not able to clear out garrisoned buildings. Repair facility: This would bring fun old times back!!! Turret: Same barrel as one Medium tank, but cheaper and able to be repaired. And maybe Construction Yard... that was the biggest thing in C&C. Flame tank renamed to Devils tongue flame tank: Not able to do fire wall. Has 2 barrelled flame barrels. 2X stronger as Dragon tank. Nationalism upgrade for RA. Generals if they are so high-tech they should have AP bullets & rockets. Tiberian can maybe have the advanced training upgrade.

Posted by: XrRydr - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:58:58 AM
Well true all the C&C games had a really heavy tank, they never had it so that both teams had one. But enought of that it seems like you already made up your mind on that. But you never said what exactly you are going for on this mod. Do you want there to be themed teams at all? Or do you want it to be truly be all star where all of the teams get the best units from their games so that they could excel in nearly any catagory? I suppose your compromise on the heavy tank thing is pretty good. Ill just have to see how different the apocolypse and the overlord are. And is always a good idea to update your units page on the website so that people aren't looking at outdated information. ...So would you still want ideas about upgrades and generals power for the reds and gens?

Posted by: XrRydr - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:58:58 AM

Well true all the C&C games had a really heavy tank, they never had it so that both teams had one. But enought of that it seems like you already made up your mind on that. But you never said what exactly you are going for on this mod. Do you want there to be themed teams at all? Or do you want it to be truly be all star where all of the teams get the best units from their games so that they could excel in nearly any catagory? I suppose your compromise on the heavy tank thing is pretty good. Ill just have to see how different the apocolypse and the overlord are. And is always a good idea to update your units page on the website so that people aren't looking at outdated information. ...So would you still want ideas about upgrades and generals power for the reds and gens?

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:18:51 AM
I have made another topic about upgrades, go check that topic out and give your suggestions over there too. And will the hijacker be able to hijack the Mammoth mark2??? And will the Battle Fortress be able to crush enemy tanks?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:26:09 PM
OK, I have a bunch of long lists to make too, I guess. First of all, XrRydr, thank you very much for the comments. I find them very helpful, even if it's because it stops Commie from ranting at me. :) I'm considering giving you a staff position, though you'd be hamming in on my "have no talents yet somehow still be in charge" job. :) Under NO circumstances will the so called "Heavy tanks" squish (squash) the other tanks. It absolutely will not happen. I'm pretty much decided that the Overlord will be the only tank with built on upgrades though a long winded essay might change my mind. I like the Bomb truck having both upgrades. Plus I'm scared that Dr. Thrax might come and kill me. :) Yes, I plan a complete overhaul of the units page once I finish school (one more week) -- Commie if you're out already feel free to do that. I like the Radar Van idea. And BTW all, what's so overpowering about the helix? I find they are easy to shoot down. But maybe that's just me. Nice comments all. One last note: I am in the process of aquiring another modeller so once we get aCC back and this new modeller we'll have a bunch of models coming. :)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 12:26:09 PM

OK, I have a bunch of long lists to make too, I guess. First of all, XrRydr, thank you very much for the comments. I find them very helpful, even if it's because it stops Commie from ranting at me. :) I'm considering giving you a staff position, though you'd be hamming in on my "have no talents yet somehow still be in charge" job. :) Under NO circumstances will the so called "Heavy tanks" squish (squash) the other tanks. It absolutely will not happen. I'm pretty much decided that the Overlord will be the only tank with built on upgrades though a long winded essay might change my mind. I like the Bomb truck having both upgrades. Plus I'm scared that Dr. Thrax might come and kill me. :) Yes, I plan a complete overhaul of the units page once I finish school (one more week) -- Commie if you're out already feel free to do that. I like the Radar Van idea. And BTW all, what's so overpowering about the helix? I find they are easy to shoot down. But maybe that's just me. Nice comments all. One last note: I am in the process of aquiring another modeller so once we get aCC back and this new modeller we'll have a bunch of models coming. :)

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:40:21 PM
Hmm... after 5 posts by XrRydr, you are already thinking about giving him a job? I feel left out [sad] One thing about the building names: Tank production facilities: Generals: Arms dealer Tiberian: Weapons factory RA: War factory Unit training centers: General: Detention camp Tiberian: Hand of [insert name] RA: Barracks

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:52:46 PM
Incia, his 5 posts were long and helpful.

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:57:52 PM
CommieDog i think the overlord is already a unit with low armor (few demo units, couple planes or a weak gen point to kill?) and high firepower... the mammoth had lots of armour and not so heavy firepower (they didnt kill tanks nearly as quick as an overlord and survived a nuke IIRC). Besides the mammoth is much more chunky and has smaller cannons. I feel its like getting a bird and a fish, cutting the birds wings off and drowning it while throwing the fish off a cliff... id go with the other way around! And i read you are using the apoc, well lol the same applies esthetically i suppose... are we not including the original Mammoth at all??? BTW include the minelayer, it wouldnt be hard to balance. Also keeping same prices will invariably screw up the game as the prices from the different CNCs seem to go up everytime a new one is released (cnc infantry = 100 generals infantry = 150-300. cnc MBT 600-800 generals = 800-1100..) anyways thats my long 2 cents, its your mod

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:57:52 PM

CommieDog i think the overlord is already a unit with low armor (few demo units, couple planes or a weak gen point to kill?) and high firepower... the mammoth had lots of armour and not so heavy firepower (they didnt kill tanks nearly as quick as an overlord and survived a nuke IIRC). Besides the mammoth is much more chunky and has smaller cannons. I feel its like getting a bird and a fish, cutting the birds wings off and drowning it while throwing the fish off a cliff... id go with the other way around! And i read you are using the apoc, well lol the same applies esthetically i suppose... are we not including the original Mammoth at all??? BTW include the minelayer, it wouldnt be hard to balance. Also keeping same prices will invariably screw up the game as the prices from the different CNCs seem to go up everytime a new one is released (cnc infantry = 100 generals infantry = 150-300. cnc MBT 600-800 generals = 800-1100..) anyways thats my long 2 cents, its your mod

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:08:37 PM
we probably won't include the mammoth.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:33:59 PM
First of all I'd like to say that this is a very nice discussion that is going on here - its good to finally have some opinions. Now personally, I'd like to include both the apocalypse and the overlord. If we don't, fans will cry bloody murder! One of the biggest responses I saw after we first announced the mod was: sweet, now I'll finally be able to see who wins when an apocalypse and an overlord battle 1v1. And this is where our current poll question comes in - "Tank Battle Royal - Who Wins?". Naturally, I figured, why not let the fans decide? Not that anything has to be set in stone, but why go against the will of the majority? Its only been a day or so, but right now its looking like the Overlord.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 2:33:59 PM

First of all I'd like to say that this is a very nice discussion that is going on here - its good to finally have some opinions. Now personally, I'd like to include both the apocalypse and the overlord. If we don't, fans will cry bloody murder! One of the biggest responses I saw after we first announced the mod was: sweet, now I'll finally be able to see who wins when an apocalypse and an overlord battle 1v1. And this is where our current poll question comes in - "Tank Battle Royal - Who Wins?". Naturally, I figured, why not let the fans decide? Not that anything has to be set in stone, but why go against the will of the majority? Its only been a day or so, but right now its looking like the Overlord.

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 3:19:15 PM
You guys don't post feedback about my posts... Have you even read them?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 4:00:27 PM
we read all of them Incia. Some are kind of far-fetched. Mic I plan to include those but not the original Mammoth.

Posted by: CommieDog - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:59:09 PM
OK Incia, you can have a list too:[list] []SSM Launcher -- I would like to see this to, as a general's promotion. []Nod Attack Buggy -- We decided to replace the Humvee with this. []Chem Warrior -- would be nice to have (could we reskin the Biohazard Technician? []Advanced Communication Center -- Blbpaws never said where the Ion Cannon would be launched. But it would be a long time to wait for radar, don't you think? (unless we made the Ion Cannon an upgrade...) []Tiberium Silo -- I don't think we could add it if we tried. []Advanced Guard Tower -- We were planning to implement this as an upgrade to the Guard Tower. []A-10 Strike -- As far as I know, we were plainning to keep it. []ORCA -- Already planned, but I don't know if we want to make it pad-based or not. []Apache -- Already planned as well, but with missiles (maybe 2 instead of 4). []Grenade Upgrade -- I liked the shotgun idea better for the Minigunner. But it might be worth giving to the Reds' rocket soldier. Or maybe we could just ditch him for the Flak Trooper and Grenadier. []Repair Facility -- This is made somewhat obsolete by the Generals engine. []Turret -- Already planned []Construction Yard -- Well I don't know, I was thinking of having one MCV and being unable to replace it. [smile] [](Devil's Tongue) Flame Tank -- Did it have two nozzles? []Nationalism -- We're playing around with that idea. []AP Upgrades -- The Generals Elite doesn't have enough rocket weapons to make the AP Rocket upgrade worthwhile, but AP Bullets would be good. [*]Advanced Trainig -- Why shouldn't the Generals [b][i][u]ELITE[/u][/i][/b] have it? [/list] [quote=XrRydr]But enought of that it seems like you already made up your mind on that. But you never said what exactly you are going for on this mod. Do you want there to be themed teams at all? Or do you want it to be truly be all star where all of the teams get the best units from their games so that they could excel in nearly any catagory? [/quote] Like I said before, we want a little of both. Though now that I think of it, my idea of factions within each side may come into play. For example, you pointed out that most Nod units are biased in favor of stealty and senaky tactics. My idea was to have 3 factions within each of the 3 main sides. For instance, the Tiberians would have both GDI and Nod to choose from, and each faction would receive a discount on their side's units. So while GDI bas access to Nod's sneaky units, they are less cost-effective than GDI's discounted brute force units. Thus, GDI will be best at brute force tactics, but they can use sneaky tactics if their opponent proves too resistive. Nod has the opposite scenario -- they would prefer sneaky units, but brute force would be an option. [quote=XrRydr]I suppose your compromise on the heavy tank thing is pretty good. Ill just have to see how different the apocolypse and the overlord are. [/quote] Well, I was thinking that the Overlord would have more armor than the Apocalypse (1100 vs 800, but Lion raised compatibility issues), be upgradeable with base defenses like in ZH, and be able to crush most vehicles (but possibly not the Apocalypse, since it's almost as big). The Apocalypse, on the other hand, would have more firepower (it was awesome against buildings -- you can't deny that, Lion), come with a free anti-aircraft weapon and auto-heal, and only crush infantry. [quote=XrRydr]...So would you still want ideas about upgrades and generals power for the reds and gens? [/quote] YES! Especially for upgrades. [quote=Blbpaws]Under NO circumstances will the so called "Heavy tanks" squish (squash) the other tanks. It absolutely will not happen. [/quote] That's kind of unfair to the Overlord. [quote=Blbpaws]I'm pretty much decided that the Overlord will be the only tank with built on upgrades though a long winded essay might change my mind. [/quote] I agree with that stance, unless we see an idea for a totally different unit with totally different upgrades. [quote=Blbpaws]Yes, I plan a complete overhaul of the units page once I finish school (one more week) -- Commie if you're out already feel free to do that. [/quote] I can make the list, but you will nead to upload it. [quote=Blbpaws]I like the Radar Van idea. [/quote] I thought you might. After all, you have it on the staff's unit list. [smile] [quote=Lion]BTW include the minelayer, it wouldnt be hard to balance. [/quote] (I think) we have that planned for the mod. [quote=Lion]Also keeping same prices will invariably screw up the game as the prices from the different CNCs seem to go up everytime a new one is released (cnc infantry = 100 generals infantry = 150-300. cnc MBT 600-800 generals = 800-1100..) [/quote] Yes, I'd imagine that we would need to tweak a few prices when it cannot be avoided (3000 for an MCV but only 1000 for a Dozer?!?) But I would prefer 'under the hood' changes that would be less noticeable than price.

Posted by: CommieDog - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:59:09 PM

OK Incia, you can have a list too:[list] [*]SSM Launcher -- I would like to see this to, as a general's promotion. [*]Nod Attack Buggy -- We decided to replace the Humvee with this. [*]Chem Warrior -- would be nice to have (could we reskin the Biohazard Technician? [*]Advanced Communication Center -- Blbpaws never said where the Ion Cannon would be launched. But it would be a long time to wait for radar, don't you think? (unless we made the Ion Cannon an upgrade...) [*]Tiberium Silo -- I don't think we could add it if we tried. [*]Advanced Guard Tower -- We were planning to implement this as an upgrade to the Guard Tower. [*]A-10 Strike -- As far as I know, we were plainning to keep it. [*]ORCA -- Already planned, but I don't know if we want to make it pad-based or not. [*]Apache -- Already planned as well, but with missiles (maybe 2 instead of 4). [*]Grenade Upgrade -- I liked the shotgun idea better for the Minigunner. But it might be worth giving to the Reds' rocket soldier. Or maybe we could just ditch him for the Flak Trooper and Grenadier. [*]Repair Facility -- This is made somewhat obsolete by the Generals engine. [*]Turret -- Already planned [*]Construction Yard -- Well I don't know, I was thinking of having one MCV and being unable to replace it. [smile] [*](Devil's Tongue) Flame Tank -- Did it have two nozzles? [*]Nationalism -- We're playing around with that idea. [*]AP Upgrades -- The Generals Elite doesn't have enough rocket weapons to make the AP Rocket upgrade worthwhile, but AP Bullets would be good. [*]Advanced Trainig -- Why shouldn't the Generals [b][i][u]ELITE[/u][/i][/b] have it? [/list] [quote=XrRydr]But enought of that it seems like you already made up your mind on that. But you never said what exactly you are going for on this mod. Do you want there to be themed teams at all? Or do you want it to be truly be all star where all of the teams get the best units from their games so that they could excel in nearly any catagory? [/quote] Like I said before, we want a little of both. Though now that I think of it, my idea of factions within each side may come into play. For example, you pointed out that most Nod units are biased in favor of stealty and senaky tactics. My idea was to have 3 factions within each of the 3 main sides. For instance, the Tiberians would have both GDI and Nod to choose from, and each faction would receive a discount on their side's units. So while GDI bas access to Nod's sneaky units, they are less cost-effective than GDI's discounted brute force units. Thus, GDI will be best at brute force tactics, but they can use sneaky tactics if their opponent proves too resistive. Nod has the opposite scenario -- they would prefer sneaky units, but brute force would be an option. [quote=XrRydr]I suppose your compromise on the heavy tank thing is pretty good. Ill just have to see how different the apocolypse and the overlord are. [/quote] Well, I was thinking that the Overlord would have more armor than the Apocalypse (1100 vs 800, but Lion raised compatibility issues), be upgradeable with base defenses like in ZH, and be able to crush most vehicles (but possibly not the Apocalypse, since it's almost as big). The Apocalypse, on the other hand, would have more firepower (it was awesome against buildings -- you can't deny that, Lion), come with a free anti-aircraft weapon and auto-heal, and only crush infantry. [quote=XrRydr]...So would you still want ideas about upgrades and generals power for the reds and gens? [/quote] YES! Especially for upgrades. [quote=Blbpaws]Under NO circumstances will the so called "Heavy tanks" squish (squash) the other tanks. It absolutely will not happen. [/quote] That's kind of unfair to the Overlord. [quote=Blbpaws]I'm pretty much decided that the Overlord will be the only tank with built on upgrades though a long winded essay might change my mind. [/quote] I agree with that stance, unless we see an idea for a totally different unit with totally different upgrades. [quote=Blbpaws]Yes, I plan a complete overhaul of the units page once I finish school (one more week) -- Commie if you're out already feel free to do that. [/quote] I can make the list, but you will nead to upload it. [quote=Blbpaws]I like the Radar Van idea. [/quote] I thought you might. After all, you have it on the staff's unit list. [smile] [quote=Lion]BTW include the minelayer, it wouldnt be hard to balance. [/quote] (I think) we have that planned for the mod. [quote=Lion]Also keeping same prices will invariably screw up the game as the prices from the different CNCs seem to go up everytime a new one is released (cnc infantry = 100 generals infantry = 150-300. cnc MBT 600-800 generals = 800-1100..) [/quote] Yes, I'd imagine that we would need to tweak a few prices when it cannot be avoided (3000 for an MCV but only 1000 for a Dozer?!?) But I would prefer 'under the hood' changes that would be less noticeable than price.

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:22:13 PM
Look at that pic and see how the flame tank looks like. [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/incia/flame.gif[/img] And I was thinking if the Tiberiun Dawn armt had an radar for CC as General has... but that the Advanced Communication Center could have it also. Just for an extra small thing. And I thought the Tiber army was lacking on upgrades, so I thought the Advanced training would fit them.

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 7:22:13 PM

Look at that pic and see how the flame tank looks like. [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/incia/flame.gif[/img] And I was thinking if the Tiberiun Dawn armt had an radar for CC as General has... but that the Advanced Communication Center could have it also. Just for an extra small thing. And I thought the Tiber army was lacking on upgrades, so I thought the Advanced training would fit them.

Posted by: Luckie - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:04:58 PM
Well, issues aside with 'where' things can go, i think we oughta look at what would be closest to the original experience. I think mic brought up a great point when he said that fans would cry bloody murder if we didnt have both tanks. So, just to make them very happy, why don't we have both but not allow them to shoot on eachother ;) Just Kidding. Grenadier - Sweet idea. Flak trooper would work too. I still wish we could use an Engineer. That would make for some very interesting gameplay. I remember the days when you sent 2 tanks and few infantry in to take out a little of the defenses and snuck in 10 engineers, only 3 of which lived, lol. But i will be happy with the spy. I just wish he could steal technology, but I doubt that would work. That is, unless there is some sort of cheat that could be implimented. Like they way the Generals AI can cheat.

Posted by: Luckie - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:04:58 PM

Well, issues aside with 'where' things can go, i think we oughta look at what would be closest to the original experience. I think mic brought up a great point when he said that fans would cry bloody murder if we didnt have both tanks. So, just to make them very happy, why don't we have both but not allow them to shoot on eachother ;) Just Kidding. Grenadier - Sweet idea. Flak trooper would work too. I still wish we could use an Engineer. That would make for some very interesting gameplay. I remember the days when you sent 2 tanks and few infantry in to take out a little of the defenses and snuck in 10 engineers, only 3 of which lived, lol. But i will be happy with the spy. I just wish he could steal technology, but I doubt that would work. That is, unless there is some sort of cheat that could be implimented. Like they way the Generals AI can cheat.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:19:48 PM
[quote] still wish we could use an Engineer. That would make for some very interesting gameplay. [/quote] If by interesting gameplay you mean crazy balancing issues... heh

Posted by: Flippy - Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:44:11 AM
Don't put in the gay mech titan! Mechs suck!

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:51:48 AM
Hey, well thanks Blbpaws for a possible job offer and I would love to be a part of the team, and if someone could teach me something that I could help with that would be good because I would feel bad for me to be a part of the team and not have done anything. I looked at some of the ini stuff at deezire but it seemed a little complicated but I dunno. But anyways, I think ill try to post upgrade and general powers in their respective threads in the forums, it would be more organized like that. But it's funny to see you guys still in school, I have been out since May 21, but I go back the 2nd week in august. (I live in Marietta, GA) Now commiedog, the three "generals" within each team may work, but you would need to make the differences strong enough for them to be worth using. Would you make them the same thing except for prices? Or would you make bigger changes such as firepower speed, or other abilities and units? The reason why I don't like the slave miner is because I think it can get money faster than regular harvesters. The differnce is that the slave miner can move and redeploy itself next to the closet supply source when one is empty. For the standard miner, either you would live with a much bigger distance to travel for supplies, or go build another refinery. I'm not going to comment on any other units until you update the page, but the minelayer for the reds seems like a good idea. And if you are somewhat going to have "themes" for each team, be sure to share those.

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:51:48 AM

Hey, well thanks Blbpaws for a possible job offer and I would love to be a part of the team, and if someone could teach me something that I could help with that would be good because I would feel bad for me to be a part of the team and not have done anything. I looked at some of the ini stuff at deezire but it seemed a little complicated but I dunno. But anyways, I think ill try to post upgrade and general powers in their respective threads in the forums, it would be more organized like that. But it's funny to see you guys still in school, I have been out since May 21, but I go back the 2nd week in august. (I live in Marietta, GA) Now commiedog, the three "generals" within each team may work, but you would need to make the differences strong enough for them to be worth using. Would you make them the same thing except for prices? Or would you make bigger changes such as firepower speed, or other abilities and units? The reason why I don't like the slave miner is because I think it can get money faster than regular harvesters. The differnce is that the slave miner can move and redeploy itself next to the closet supply source when one is empty. For the standard miner, either you would live with a much bigger distance to travel for supplies, or go build another refinery. I'm not going to comment on any other units until you update the page, but the minelayer for the reds seems like a good idea. And if you are somewhat going to have "themes" for each team, be sure to share those.

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:46:49 AM
Well if you don’t mind ill chip in with more opinions, in no particular order... 1- I think that having 2 games to work with can make both the tiberians and RA guys have 2 armies EACH, with their own units.. giving price differences will simply make it really hard to make fun, balanced sides, and having same units for GDI and NOD seems daft to me at least 2-omg the mammoth tank is out? i thought it was the absolute unit that resisted its way for 2 games, had a MK2 made so much it was loved and still got its little clone apoc and overlord! I thought it was THE cnc unit that set it apart from other RTS... But the apoc is really the mammoth with a different label, its the same unit (unless you make its armour weak and guns overpowered) 3- Overlord should still crush tanks and yes the apoc was really good against buildings BUT ra2 had the weakest structures in the WHOLE of the CNC UNIVERSE, a couple of GIs deployed could raze an entire base extremely quick! You played Eagle Red and it had base buildings get double health to fix that problem... i think still proportionally the apoc has more armor and less firepower than an overlord, and there’s the visual side as well, the overlord has HUGE cannons, so big they look awful to me lol the apoc was so much chunkier and there’s still the matter that having auto-heal on weaker units is a lot less useful 4- the grenadier should be present along with a flak trooper, one extra infantry wont hurt... Spies should be able to sneak into the enemies tech center and steal some sort of upgrade or unit, like the RA2 spy could. showing their build queues is a bit hard to include i think so leave it out... 5-Please god tell me the tesla coil will be in! Try to add the 3 shot thing where it would do up to 3 quick zaps for weaker units and a full long zap for tanks with lots of health left! 6- about prices, well i think making units better/worse than they are instead of a price change will look nicer but then the units will be weaker and the cnc factions will be all like gla full of cheap crappy units, which isn’t necessarily bad (gla is good)but will be unfaithful 7- making an irreplaceable MCV will make winning easy: use gen powers and planes to destroy it and they cant rebuild it , game over in the long run... cant you just make it an immobile unit (con yard) that has an unlimited building range? or make the engineers come out of con yard and they build stuff so you have both units in... also i see engineers like demo bikes, they are expensive and are better for taking out undefended expansions, just make them weak and slow as they were anyways and see how it goes... at least make them repair a building to full health when they enter it giving the player more strategic opportunities.. 8- unit with built-on upgrades: component tower... i think there should be a team for each game, so the tiberian sun guys would have it as their defence while the original tiberians would have their guard towers, but that would be a LOT of work edit: GOSH my spelling is awful [sunglasses] fixed most of it now!

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:46:49 AM

Well if you don’t mind ill chip in with more opinions, in no particular order... 1- I think that having 2 games to work with can make both the tiberians and RA guys have 2 armies EACH, with their own units.. giving price differences will simply make it really hard to make fun, balanced sides, and having same units for GDI and NOD seems daft to me at least 2-omg the mammoth tank is out? i thought it was the absolute unit that resisted its way for 2 games, had a MK2 made so much it was loved and still got its little clone apoc and overlord! I thought it was THE cnc unit that set it apart from other RTS... But the apoc is really the mammoth with a different label, its the same unit (unless you make its armour weak and guns overpowered) 3- Overlord should still crush tanks and yes the apoc was really good against buildings BUT ra2 had the weakest structures in the WHOLE of the CNC UNIVERSE, a couple of GIs deployed could raze an entire base extremely quick! You played Eagle Red and it had base buildings get double health to fix that problem... i think still proportionally the apoc has more armor and less firepower than an overlord, and there’s the visual side as well, the overlord has HUGE cannons, so big they look awful to me lol the apoc was so much chunkier and there’s still the matter that having auto-heal on weaker units is a lot less useful 4- the grenadier should be present along with a flak trooper, one extra infantry wont hurt... Spies should be able to sneak into the enemies tech center and steal some sort of upgrade or unit, like the RA2 spy could. showing their build queues is a bit hard to include i think so leave it out... 5-Please god tell me the tesla coil will be in! Try to add the 3 shot thing where it would do up to 3 quick zaps for weaker units and a full long zap for tanks with lots of health left! 6- about prices, well i think making units better/worse than they are instead of a price change will look nicer but then the units will be weaker and the cnc factions will be all like gla full of cheap crappy units, which isn’t necessarily bad (gla is good)but will be unfaithful 7- making an irreplaceable MCV will make winning easy: use gen powers and planes to destroy it and they cant rebuild it , game over in the long run... cant you just make it an immobile unit (con yard) that has an unlimited building range? or make the engineers come out of con yard and they build stuff so you have both units in... also i see engineers like demo bikes, they are expensive and are better for taking out undefended expansions, just make them weak and slow as they were anyways and see how it goes... at least make them repair a building to full health when they enter it giving the player more strategic opportunities.. 8- unit with built-on upgrades: component tower... i think there should be a team for each game, so the tiberian sun guys would have it as their defence while the original tiberians would have their guard towers, but that would be a LOT of work edit: GOSH my spelling is awful [sunglasses] fixed most of it now!

Posted by: Flippy - Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:29:14 AM
Generals? [b]Generals Elite:[/b] General Townes: Laser and USA General Juhziz: Demolitions and GLA General Kwai: Tanks and China [b]Reds[/b] Korea General: Air Force Iraq General: Nuke (Are we doing Yuri?) [b]Tibs[/b] NOD Flame General

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:22:02 PM
we can't make that many radical changes (such as 9 separate sides) in the first version. It's possible for later versions. Aside from that I'm not going to comment on much else until I can finalize exactly what we want to do. Just keep the comments up. And Commie, if you have time could you go through the staff design doc and just update it with anything we have decided since then. Once you do that give it to me and I'll update it. Actually Commie, it should be possible for you to edit the page yourself by logging in as a staff member and clicking "edit Conent Pages." Pick the page you want to edit and you can do it. If you can't figure it out or if it doesn't work let me know and I'll do it.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:22:02 PM

we can't make that many radical changes (such as 9 separate sides) in the first version. It's possible for later versions. Aside from that I'm not going to comment on much else until I can finalize exactly what we want to do. Just keep the comments up. And Commie, if you have time could you go through the staff design doc and just update it with anything we have decided since then. Once you do that give it to me and I'll update it. Actually Commie, it should be possible for you to edit the page yourself by logging in as a staff member and clicking "edit Conent Pages." Pick the page you want to edit and you can do it. If you can't figure it out or if it doesn't work let me know and I'll do it.

Posted by: Luckie - Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:36:55 PM
Hm, interesting idea about the conyard. I wonder if it would be possible to build buildings just like RA/2, or atleast similar. Anyone know if it's POSSIBLE?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, June 17, 2004 12:44:30 PM
I believe Commie said it wasn't.

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:00:10 PM

Maybe the CY builds an invisible unit (to account for price and build time cameo and descriptions are of the building you wanna build), the unit would have speed 1000000 and then once it gets to the rally point (construction site) lethal damage is done to it and a building is placed at its position (wont have a build-up animation). OR the unit could simply build the building(by scripting) for free once it is out and very fast, you wouldn’t see it building as it is invisible, just a building coming up in the middle of nowhere. That should be fairly easy with some scripting and INI tweaking. The big problem is balance... to prevent us from just building the first defence right at the enemies base wed have to add checks such as: IF unit is further than X from *insert objectlist for buildings* THEN kill unit and refund player, + play sound cannot build there or instead of distance from building just IF outside myouterperimeter THEN kill unit. that would just about solve it but it would look daft as you’d build the whole thing just to get a failure and refund, so to go around that then wed have to add a replacement unit and give it focus and play some "pick another location" file so the player could simply click on another location. Of course adding a check "IF cursor NOT in *area allowed to build* THEN change cursor to red square and not let him tell the invisible unit to move towards that place" but it seems kind of impossible form what I seen from WB so far... anyways its easy to go around many things, it just takes some time to figure it out... My idea might work who knows (provided you understood what I mean!)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:02:35 PM
I understand. It might be possible that way and if CommieDog can do it great and if not I'm happy with it as it is.

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:30:47 PM

[quote=Lion]1- I think that having 2 games to work with can make both the tiberians and RA guys have 2 armies EACH, with their own units.. giving price differences will simply make it really hard to make fun, balanced sides, and having same units for GDI and NOD seems daft to me at least [/quote] Having different armies for each storyline takes away the point of the mod: to make the teams from each storyline come together and fight the other storylines for supremacy. If each side is fun and balanced to begin with, then making minor changes shouldn't be too hard to balance (certainly more so than either the 'Let's make each general have 3 overpowered and underpriced units and make the rest overpriced!' ZH Generals or adding a complete new side.) [quote=Lion]3- yes the apoc was really good against buildings BUT ra2 had the weakest structures in the WHOLE of the CNC UNIVERSE, a couple of GIs deployed could raze an entire base extremely quick! You played Eagle Red and it had base buildings get double health to fix that problem... [/quote] It's not the RA2 structures that were weak -- it was the anti-building ability of the units that were too strong, thanks to the building armor they implemented in RA2. Numberwise, the RA2 structures are just as strong as their TS equivalents. [quote=Lion]there’s the visual side as well, the overlord has HUGE cannons, so big they look awful to me lol the apoc was so much chunkier [/quote] Right now, the Apocalypse is smaller than the Overlord. And chunky armor doesn't mean good armor -- it means poor Soviet design. [quote=Lion]there’s still the matter that having auto-heal on weaker units is a lot less useful [/quote] Alternatively, there's the problem of giving expensive build-on upgrades to weak units. [quote=Lion]Spies should be able to sneak into the enemies tech center and steal some sort of upgrade or unit, like the RA2 spy could. showing their build queues is a bit hard to include i think so leave it out... [/quote] Except there's the problem of how limited the Saboteur's infiltrate code is. [disappointed] [quote=Lion]5-Please god tell me the tesla coil will be in! Try to add the 3 shot thing where it would do up to 3 quick zaps for weaker units and a full long zap for tanks with lots of health left! [/quote] Yes, the Tesla Coil will be added. But there is no way to let a unit detect the health of other units and switch weapons accordingly. [quote=Lion]7- making an irreplaceable MCV will make winning easy: use gen powers and planes to destroy it and they cant rebuild it , game over in the long run... cant you just make it an immobile unit (con yard) that has an unlimited building range? [/quote] Run your sarcasm detector over that statement again, especially the smiley at the end. Building range is essentially hard-coded to zero. And would you like people being able to plop units anywhere while you as the Gens would have to waste time moving your dozer to do the same thing? [quote=Lion]8- unit with built-on upgrades: component tower... i think there should be a team for each game, so the tiberian sun guys would have it as their defence while the original tiberians would have their guard towers, but that would be a LOT of work [/quote] Plus it wouldn't feel like they're working together anymore if we make them too distinct.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:27:22 PM

OK, let me commment on a bunch of these. 1) I agree with Commie on this. It's simple the point of the mod. 3) I don't think this really matters. We will make sure it's balanced. I'm not sure how yet, but we will make the three big tanks balanced. We'll see about Auto heal. Like Commie alluded to, what I don't want to do is have there be a high level upgrade which affects a low-level unit that'd you'd never build at that stage of the game.

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, June 17, 2004 6:10:41 PM

[quote=Lion]Maybe the CY builds an invisible unit (to account for price and build time cameo and descriptions are of the building you wanna build), the unit would have speed 1000000 and then once it gets to the rally point (construction site) lethal damage is done to it and a building is placed at its position (wont have a build-up animation). OR the unit could simply build the building(by scripting) for free once it is out and very fast, you wouldn’t see it building as it is invisible, just a building coming up in the middle of nowhere. That should be fairly easy with some scripting and INI tweaking. The big problem is balance... to prevent us from just building the first defence right at the enemies base wed have to add checks such as: IF unit is further than X from *insert objectlist for buildings* THEN kill unit and refund player, + play sound cannot build there or instead of distance from building just IF outside myouterperimeter THEN kill unit. that would just about solve it but it would look daft as you’d build the whole thing just to get a failure and refund, so to go around that then wed have to add a replacement unit and give it focus and play some "pick another location" file so the player could simply click on another location. Of course adding a check "IF cursor NOT in *area allowed to build* THEN change cursor to red square and not let him tell the invisible unit to move towards that place" but it seems kind of impossible form what I seen from WB so far... anyways its easy to go around many things, it just takes some time to figure it out... My idea might work who knows (provided you understood what I mean!) [/quote] A couple problems with your method:[list=1] [*]You cannot make a command button to both construct a unit AND set a rally point. It's one or the other, so a player would have to set the rally point automatically. Can the AI do that? [*]The buildup animation would be a problem; if you set the animation to play once when the Prism Tower is at PRISTINE ConditionState, then the buildup will play every time you heal it from DAMAGED to PRISTINE. [*]The only way to tell the dummy unit to self-destruct and plop the building is with a timer. There is no way to tell the unit to self-destruct without placing the building is by deleting it instead of just destroying it. But the only way to delete a unit is also with a timer, so you would never have an option to use both in a 'IF stopped by some time, destroy and call building ELSE delete' logic. [*]Since there is no way to set a range on a rally point, A dummy unit that had not reached the destination in time would self-destruct on a line between the NaturalRallyPoint (the default rally point) and the set rally point. If you had a long enough timer, then it could reach any point on the map, which is a problem in itself (balancing issues). [/list]

Posted by: Luckie - Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:22:50 PM
Then people would find a way to run this unit into any of their oponent's buldings ;) Hahahaha.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, June 18, 2004 3:12:07 AM
lol. I'll take your word for it Commie.

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 18, 2004 5:39:36 AM
On TD you couldn't build far from your base... every building had to be touching the other building. Will you add the CY or not? Me not really understand if it is possible or not.

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, June 18, 2004 7:53:30 AM
I don't think that you should put too much effort in trying to get the construction yard thing to work. It might be possible, but you can already see there would be a lot of problems that would come of if we this. Besides, the dozer thing isn't that bad of a system.

Posted by: Lion - Friday, June 18, 2004 7:57:17 AM

In RA2 the strcutures were weak, if all units have a good anti-building weapon than it simply means they were weak, an infantry unit might have 10x the hitpoints of an overlord but if it takes 1000% damage from flame weapons its still gonna be weak. 5 Gis could destroy a WHOLE base in seconds, a barracks took just over 2 seconds to blow up IIRC. the structures on all other non-voxel based CNC games were far tougher to damage. Then again burton goes around with a lot more flesh exposed that a technical but it takes 20 tank shells to kill him, high tech USA armor maybe? but this doesnt really relates to the topic anymore, do what you want just make it balanced. Scripting can cause a unit to receive lethal damage with any condition, as you simply set the condition and THEN this team receives lethal damage. Alternatively you could go the hard way around and simply set when building built set timer *kill builder* to expire in x frames where x is the time it takes for the building to get built. For the buildup animation i gave the alternative of the invisible unit building the building like a dozer but at a much faster rate. I am not 100% sure if generals can do an AI mix with human units but seeing that scripted missions exist it seems very plausible, i got both RA games to have a repair and rebuild AI where it would repair my stuff automatically and even launch a nuke for me, and it was a simply dumb INI file, im sure generals can do a lot with its extended scripting system. For not reaching outside the rally point it must be possible as i explained before to kill the unit if it leaves the area specified. If you want to add all teams together and simply give different prices for the same units its fine with me its not my mod, its less work for you guys as well... The tesla coil doesnt need to "detect" a units health it simply fires a three shot burst (eg battlemaster with autoloader until the unit dies or it has to reload, however it would be able to change targets in the middle of a burst, pretty much like a laser patriot... cant be that hard to code in. so an infantry would get zapped once and die, the tesla woul use its 2 remaining zaps on other available targets while a tank would take the three shots... [quote]Run your sarcasm detector over that statement again, especially the smiley at the end. [/quote] hows fixing my spelling errors sarcastic? anyways, ill leave you guys to it, i understand you want to get the mod out first and get adventurous later, lets see how it goes and then ill give my ideas for improvement/additions.

Posted by: CommieDog - Friday, June 18, 2004 12:38:40 PM

[quote=Lion]In RA2 the strcutures were weak, if all units have a good anti-building weapon than it simply means they were weak, an infantry unit might have 10x the hitpoints of an overlord but if it takes 1000% damage from flame weapons its still gonna be weak. [/quote] Not all RA2 units had good anti-building weapons. Tanks, for example, were no more effective in RA2 against buildings than in other CnC games. The anti-building weapons were limited to such units as the Prism Tank, Apocalypse, and yes, the deployed GI. [quote=Lion]5 Gis could destroy a WHOLE base in seconds, a barracks took just over 2 seconds to blow up IIRC. [/quote] GI's couldn't walk from one side of a good sized base to the other in 5 seconds. But I remember how fast I could destroy structues with deployed GIs. It was probably put there to make the American Paradrop useful. [quote=Lion]Then again burton goes around with a lot more flesh exposed that a technical but it takes 20 tank shells to kill him, high tech USA armor maybe? but this doesnt really relates to the topic anymore, do what you want just make it balanced. [/quote] Grr...Why does everyone say "OMG TANK SHELS SHOULD BE 100% ACURATE!!!!!111!!1"? Tank shells are NOT anti-infantry weapons. They are designed to hit large targets (such as another tank or a building) and are not accurate enough to hit infantry at maximum range. Modern tank shells, such as SABOT, also have very little explove content other than the propellant, so the shell would have to score a direct hit to kill infantry in one shot. The only problem I see is that tanks try to attack infantry at maximum range when they should try to get close enough to aim reliably, and then take out thei machine gun and attack. [quote=Lion]Scripting can cause a unit to receive lethal damage with any condition, as you simply set the condition and THEN this team receives lethal damage. [/quote] Now you're talking about AI scripting, which is beyond my area of expertise. Can you spawn waypoints and boundaries on a map when a unit is created? [quote=Lion]Alternatively you could go the hard way around and simply set when building built set timer *kill builder* to expire in x frames where x is the time it takes for the building to get built. [/quote] But then you would have to make the invisible dozer insanely fast, which would cause problems since it raises the possibility that the dozer could be sidetracked and repair a nearby building (units that can build structures MUST also be able to reapir them, it's hrad-coded.) [quote=Lion]For the buildup animation i gave the alternative of the invisible unit building the building like a dozer but at a much faster rate. I am not 100% sure if generals can do an AI mix with human units but seeing that scripted missions exist it seems very plausible, i got both RA games to have a repair and rebuild AI where it would repair my stuff automatically and even launch a nuke for me, and it was a simply dumb INI file, im sure generals can do a lot with its extended scripting system. [/quote] Ah, I was thinking of using OCLs (where an object is instantly created) instead of having an automated dozer. See if you automate units in Generals. [quote=Lion]The tesla coil doesnt need to "detect" a units health it simply fires a three shot burst (eg battlemaster with autoloader until the unit dies or it has to reload, however it would be able to change targets in the middle of a burst, pretty much like a laser patriot... cant be that hard to code in. so an infantry would get zapped once and die, the tesla woul use its 2 remaining zaps on other available targets while a tank would take the three shots... [/quote] But then an attack against a tank will look like that -- a 3-shot burst. The Tesla Coil isn't intended to be a powerful anti-infantry defense, anyway. [quote=Lion][quote]Run your sarcasm detector over that statement again, especially the smiley at the end. [/quote] hows fixing my spelling errors sarcastic [/quote] I'm talking about the statment I made in response to Incia concerning the irreplacable MCV, which you took as serious.

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 18, 2004 12:58:54 PM
Will you include tiberium units? such as cyborg, cyborg reaper, mutant hijacker, cyborg commando...?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, June 18, 2004 1:33:51 PM

i really like the cyborgs so i hope they will come in, but i dont think cyborg commando will come in because of that gdi mutant dude which is in already, though having cyborg commando and mk3 thing would represent the 2 sides both, now the 2 best units come from tib side, but the best defense comes from nod again, i would love to see the banshee as an anti tank air unit and the gdi bomber as an anti defense/building unit

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, June 18, 2004 2:38:00 PM
good comments Lion. Incia we will include some but perhaps not all of those.

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, June 19, 2004 5:59:00 AM

Yes there are conditions to kill a unit of it leaves/enters certain areas, most of it already used to program the AI on skirmish maps, but you can of course add a lot more complexity if the maps will be custom mode for the mod (a la blitzkrieg). you can even add a range of scripts that detect the size of the base and then allow bigger areas around your base which can be used to kill/stop the unit if it goes out of it... My comment about the Burton was exactly to highlight the unrealisticness of the game, tank in generals funnily enough are 100% accurate just the damage is low, which is the other way around from real life... The tesla was a good anti infantry weapon, but of course it can be changed at will Kepp up the good work guys, i saw the models and its looking sweet

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:35:48 AM
hmm. Lion, what we are going to probably do is have some custom maps and some regular maps. Would your theroy still apply?

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:28:32 AM
Lion instead of telling how to do these things, can't you first try it out and if it workes then give the edited INI.files to CommeiDog? And how many Infantry units will each side have? I see RA only have the Conscript and rocket soldier as attacking units, which are very lame.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:19:36 PM
Incia, nothing is finalized.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 19, 2004 8:35:19 PM
O.K. what do you think about it? How many infantry units do you think will be in every side?

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, June 20, 2004 2:11:45 AM

[quote=Blbpaws] hmm. Lion, what we are going to probably do is have some custom maps and some regular maps. Would your theroy still apply? [/quote] Custom maps allow for a lot more possibilities both AI-wise and scripting-wise. It would still be possible to get that working but with special waypoints and areas it would be optimal. The real problem is simply playetesting and actual trying it, but in theory it seems to work. Incia why dont you stop giving all suggestions for every unit and crazy ideas and simply give them the finished mod with all of that included? Watch your mouth as what you said applies to you as well! Youre so lazy you get people to do the mod for you so you are in no position of telling people to work! [grin] (i love you really!) Im just trying to help verbally while im WORKING on MY mod(you working on yours? [grin]). Once its done i should be actually working on AS unless they get another AI guy, but thats a bit unlikely. As far as i know, theres only 3 people actively working on real workable AIs and thats me (AAIM), thudo (Hes making his own AI as well) and RVMECH (Blitzkrieg AI) btw flame towers will rock if they launch big ass fireballs [grin]

Posted by: incia - Sunday, June 20, 2004 3:57:34 AM
1. I have a bad computer. 2. I don't know how to INI code. 3. I don't have the program for it. 4. I asked Commie, he said "yes". 5. I'm not lazy, I just have the power and friendship so people will do "things" for me. 6. Talking about crazy ideas? I actually hate all your suggestions, and this is my topic so I "suggest" you stop posting here. 7. NO OFFENCE

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:24:06 AM
lol, it´s your topic maybe, but not your forum, and we can post in the forums where we want so lion can do that too. lion is our ai maker for the mod but does he even have acces to our mods staff forum?

Posted by: incia - Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:29:11 AM
Um... Lion can post in my topic but I can't? You guys have weird rules.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, June 20, 2004 5:17:15 AM

he'll get it soon cdlord. Incia: 1. INI coding requires Notepad. Not exactly a high pwered app. 2. Niether did Commie at one point. There are tons of places you can learn. 3. Notepad? I'd be shocked if you don't have it. 4. Maybe you could have asked yourself. 5. Evidence suggests contrary. 6. Incia, in a forum everyone can post everywhere (with the exception of staff forums). We just would like it if people posted productive things. 7. None taken.

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 3:46:37 AM

lol at your replies (esp 5) Blbpaws [grin] lets not turn this into a flame war, each of us with their suggestions and we all remain friends. Im posting here so i dont have to create another topic so all constructive ideas and debates are consolidated into a single source of knowledge, saving users from scowling around looking for suggestions spread all over the place! I imagine it should be possible to do a lot of porting over if we use scripting couple with INI modding... The previous non-dozer building system would be surely a challenge but it would set AS apart from other mods, I think it would be great anyways...

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 4:11:03 AM
the non dozer build system would be great if you get it working.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 12:23:57 PM
I agree. But we also don't want to spend tons of time on it and neglect gameplay and crucial design and balancing.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 12:52:34 PM
then we could try the non dozer system after the mod is done. if we haven´t forgotten about the idea at that time.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 1:05:53 PM
that's more likely.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:03:55 PM
We'll see about it. It'd be a half compromise to the old Build bar. Maybe. :)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 23, 2004 8:03:18 AM
yes. BTW anyone seen Xryrder lately?

Posted by: XrRydr - Wednesday, June 23, 2004 11:06:40 AM

Well I see that you updated the units page! Kudos! I'll point out a few things... -Team Tiberia looks to be good, but as can be said with the reds as well, more infantry would be good, and I have already said who would be good, but you already said that infantry are difficult to model to I'll let you deal with that as you can. Also, you say that the orca fighter has "twin missles". Does this mean that it can only shoot two missles before going back for more, or will it be like how it was in Tiberian sun/dawn where it had a total of 12 missles and shot two, moved, and shot two more? -The reds look better as well (if it looks like I am being a little less picky than before, it's because I have seen some of your views and I discovered the need for compromise and such). I just would like to know, when you say that you need 500 for the minelayer, and more for mines, does that mean that it can buy more mines on the field? If so, that would make it easy to completely surround your base and anything else in mines. Either you need to make the mine build time and/or cost high or just make it so that if you have a detector near the mines then it is easy to get rid of them, meaning that you can just shoot at them with ease. Otherwise that would give the reds a big advantage in defense because either the attackers blow up, or they give you a lot of time to get ready by clearing the mines. Or maybe this was the intent, but I don't know. But either way this will certaintly make the reds high on the annoyance scale, defintily when you find supplies surrounded with mines. And going back to the orca question, what exactly would "twin missles" mean? Moving on.. -Well, even though they did in generals doesn't mean that you should! Do you really feel good knowing that all three sides have light infantry and rocket soldiers? The light infantry is understantable, but you could have some diversity like flak trooper for the reds and the grenedier for the tibs? But I think I have said that before and if you don't want that's fine I suppose. All that I can say is just repeating what I have said. I still think that the tomahawk would e a better artillery than the inferno, mostly because I don't remember the inferno cannon being that effective against armored units. -Well good job so far, the screenshots are looking good.

Posted by: incia - Wednesday, June 23, 2004 12:20:13 PM

[quote=Blbpaws] he'll get it soon cdlord. Incia: 1. INI coding requires Notepad. Not exactly a high pwered app. 2. Niether did Commie at one point. There are tons of places you can learn. 3. Notepad? I'd be shocked if you don't have it. 4. Maybe you could have asked yourself. 5. Evidence suggests contrary. 6. Incia, in a forum everyone can post everywhere (with the exception of staff forums). We just would like it if people posted productive things. 7. None taken. [/quote] Um, what I ment with ****ty computer of mine was that it crashes every month or so. Like now, I'm posting on my brothers computer. My own computer crashed down and I have had to formate everything and reinstall Windows. If I had made my MOD on that computer right now... I have had lost it all. Which kills the whole idea about me making a MOD on my computer.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 23, 2004 1:44:16 PM
I had a comp like that for a while. There are ways around it.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:24:15 PM
a flak trooper instead of a missile dude for reds might be nice if you dont want ever side to have missile dudes. for tibs you can´t really do this because they wont have aa infantry unit then.

Posted by: incia - Thursday, June 24, 2004 5:52:52 AM
If I remember correctly the Flak trooper was very effective against air and infantry, but very weak against tanks. What anti-tank unit would the RA2 then have? Crazy Ivan??? BTW, would this units be able to make: Virus (Yuri army) Initiative (Yuri army) Lasher tank (Yuri army) Floating disk (Yuri army) Brute (yuri army)

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:23:36 PM

But my point is that every army doesn't need to have everything. In past C&C games some didn't have anti-air infantry and it was perfectly balanced. Now if you think that the reds should have an anti-tank intantry a tesla trooper would be good. And honestly, I would like it if little or no yuri units were used just because I found the yuri side to be overpowered and "cheap" in RA2. Sure, you can say otherwise but that is just my opinion.

Posted by: incia - Thursday, June 24, 2004 3:27:02 PM
The best idea would be if you took something out of every game and army.

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, June 24, 2004 5:04:55 PM

[quote=Incia]If I remember correctly the Flak trooper was very effective against air and infantry, but very weak against tanks. What anti-tank unit would the RA2 then have? Crazy Ivan??? [/quote] Remember when I suggested replacing the Rocket Trooper with the Flak Trooper AND Grenadier? [quote=XrRydr]And honestly, I would like it if little or no yuri units were used just because I found the yuri side to be overpowered and "cheap" in RA2. Sure, you can say otherwise but that is just my opinion. [/quote] I agree, but just because it was cheap and anbalanced in YR doesn't mean it has to be cheap and unbalanced here.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, June 24, 2004 10:44:45 PM

and yuri wasn´t unbalanced at all, he only had one good tank and that was his standard tank, he was strong against infantry because of virus but he had big problems against tons of prism tanks or apoc tanks, if you had battle fortress with yuri mind control guys in it then it was overpowerd but it wasn´t if you didnt have that. grenadier and flak trooper would be nice for the red side. and in tib sun they didn´t have early aa because they couldn´t get air units early, in generals you can have air units before you have tanks.

Posted by: Flippy - Friday, June 25, 2004 1:36:08 AM
Luckily you can! I hate it that you don't have water units in generals. I simply LOVED that boomer!

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 25, 2004 4:58:54 AM
I had one (1) Boomer and I wiped out one whole Soviet base.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, June 25, 2004 9:40:41 AM
i had one yuri mind control guy and i whiped out 2 soviet bases....

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, June 25, 2004 9:45:07 AM

Well actually I don't remember you saying that we could replace the rocket soldier with the flak trooper and the grenadier. That would work, but it be more fun to have a tesla trooper instead, it be like a grenadier (anti-armor/infantry), but it just be different. Then we could use the grenadier/disk thrower with tiberia somehow. If you insist on everyone having AA infantry, which is understandable, you could give tiberia jump jets because those could shoot down planes, if you can make them flying that would be great, but if not you could just call them a machine gunner and get the same effect. All I am looking for is more diverse armies.

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 25, 2004 9:52:26 AM
That sounds great... but then you are not taking very much units from TD, almost all the units are from TS.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, June 25, 2004 12:03:31 PM
and i think that a jump jet guy wont be a standard infantry unit, it would be closer to an 600 costing infan unit because flying anti infan anti air infantry units would own most people when used in early rushes, against gens side it's bye md's and chinooks if it's a standard infan unit.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, June 25, 2004 12:35:51 PM
Hmm. I don't know if jump jetting inf is possible from the same strcutre as where land units are going to be built. (my hunch is that is has something to do with structure bones.)

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, June 25, 2004 1:15:51 PM
eh you lost me there blb... wtf are you talking about? you mean that you think that the infan unit can´t be build in barracks because it can fly? remember that the jum jet doesnt fly at the start, it only fly´s when you order it to cross a great distance. well a one screen long distance or longer.

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 25, 2004 1:57:00 PM
OR you could make the unit be able to deploy, and when he deploys he starts to fly.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, June 25, 2004 2:04:54 PM
there is no "deploy" command in Generals. What I meant cdlord was twofold. 1) I don't think it's possible to have some units exit a building flying and some walking. 2) I don't think you can "merge" units between air and ground (have them switch back and forth).

Posted by: incia - Friday, June 25, 2004 4:09:56 PM
The hacker got a button which makes it deploy and hack money. Could there be a button which you could klick and then make the unit fly, and then when you klick it again he will go to ground.

Posted by: CommieDog - Friday, June 25, 2004 6:10:11 PM

[quote=Blbpaws]1) I don't think it's possible to have some units exit a building flying and some walking. [/quote] I don't see why not. It would simply be a matter of the Jumpjet Infantry exiting the Barracks at ground level and rising as it heads towards the default rally point. [quote=Blbpaws]2) I don't think you can "merge" units between air and ground (have them switch back and forth). [/quote] This I know to be true. Locomotors work differently than most upgradeable characteristics and can only be upgraded once. There is no way to toggle code that would switch between walking and flying. [quote=Incia]The hacker got a button which makes it deploy and hack money. [/quote] The Hacker's deploy function doesn't let the Hacker change altitude.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 26, 2004 9:03:06 AM
ok, so the Jump jet infantry is not possible, but would the Rocketeer be?

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:19:27 PM
Yeah rocketeers would be cool! maybe if they work like a chopper (take off from barracks and remain in air)

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:29:07 PM

yeah they would be cool, but we already got the virus for the reds and having 2 anti infantry infantry units might be too much, though the rocketeer is an aa unit too, would be good against choppers. maybe we could make the jumpjet infantry be airborne forever like the rocketeers? i guess we should do one of the 2 and not both though, what infan units do we have for the tibs side? except for the machine gun dude and missile dude? we could have the entire cyborg devision that would be fun, normal cyborg and cyborg commando and that cyborg which shoots missiles and a net that disables infantry. normal cyborg would be anti infantry, cyborg commando would be anti tank and cyborg with net and missiles would be anti air anti infantry, but we got the ghost stalker guy already so maybe him and no cyborg commando then. i think cyborgs would be cool

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:32:12 PM
hmm. Actually I'm having second thoughts of they are possible due to how they leave the barracks.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:36:07 PM

commiedog said it was possible, when they leave you could make them go to the gathering point like all the other units and as commiedog said it can change altitude only once so first it walks on the ground when leaving the barracks and when it comes to the gathering point it goes into the sky forever it could go into the sky sooner too ofcourse, commiedog said it was possible so i guess it´s possible then, but that doesn´t mean that the unit could fit in the mod. we would be one of the few mods with flying infantry.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, June 26, 2004 3:42:39 PM
Would the Cyborgs be able to be crashed by tanks? Would the be autohealed on tiberium?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:58:56 AM
i think they would get some sort of auto heal upgrade instead. and i dont think tanks could run over them because cyborgs are powerful, only the biggest tanks > overlords, apoc tank and mammoth mk2 could run over them but maybe all tanks

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, June 27, 2004 7:55:22 AM
[quote=Incia] Would the Cyborgs be able to be crashed by tanks? Would the be autohealed on tiberium? [/quote] I didn't know we'd have Cyborgs. [grin]

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, June 27, 2004 12:52:54 PM
i didn´t know we´d have them either, but this is the units idea topic remember. [grin]

Posted by: Luckie - Sunday, June 27, 2004 1:54:14 PM
I like the idea of rocketeers, I've actually been thinking about that alot. I remember them having a sort of bounce as they floated though. Would that be possible?

Posted by: XrRydr - Sunday, June 27, 2004 4:44:10 PM

hey cdlord, when did they say that there would be the virus for the reds? But rocketeers/jump jet infantry would be very cool for either reds or tibs. And it would definitly be better for it to stay in that air the whole time. It was annoying in tibsun when the jump jets were in an enemy base attacking, and when they finished attacking one guy they would just land and die. The only possible upside to having them land was to pickup crates, but generals doesn't have those. But it sounds like it's not possible for them to land anyway and that's great. You might also want to toy with the idea of having them be able to shoot rockets and/or machine guns, but that could be too powerful. Also, I think that giving the tibs cyborgs would give them a bit of an advantage for infantry. As I recall, cyborgs were really pretty powerful, nothing was really that effective agianst them. Also, I am not sure if you want to try to keep the amount of units for each side about the same.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, June 27, 2004 5:02:52 PM
Xr, did you get my PM? We'll see about the cyborgs. Yes I agree about the JJI. That was very annoying.

Posted by: CommieDog - Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:30:25 PM
I didn't know that we were planning the Virus, either. I recommend against it, considering that the Gens already have a sniper unit (Pathfinder). The Jumpjet Infanty would be a good high-tech addition to the Tibs. I'm not so sure about cyborgs, though.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Sunday, June 27, 2004 9:51:57 PM
lol. Thanks to our resident CommieDog for demonstrating what a perfectly no-good triple post looks like. :P I'd like to see some sort of aerial inf in All-Stars. It'd be one of the only mods I know of that would have em.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:01:52 PM

i think we decided on the virus long ago already didn´t we? cyborgs would be cool, and they where powerful yes but they where expensive too, the normal cyborg was an anti infantry unit and it got owned by every vichle. the cyborg with missiles was good against infantry and against some tanks and buildings but it wasn´t very powerful, the cyborg commando was powerful with it´s attack but again easy to kill by air.

Posted by: XrRydr - Monday, June 28, 2004 8:35:03 AM

Yes, I cyborgs would be interesting, but the problem would be balancing. When I say that nothing was effective agianst them, I mean they were like walking tanks almost. They are infantry, but everything that is effective agianst infantry is not effective against cyborgs. And I don't know about vehicles "owning" cyborgs. Yes, I think that a Titan could take down a cyborg in a 1 on 1, but the Titan would lose a sizeable amout of HP. I don't think that wolverines and buggies were that powerful against them either. They were basically infantry with the armor of a tank. But anotother thing to consider is the fact of auto-healing. In generals, you can't exactly walk through the resources as you could in Tibsun. Either it would be always auto-heal or none at all. If these were used, an upgrade for auto-heal would be best at the weedrefinery. But in the end, tiberia would have a significant advantage in the infantry department, and that is okay as long as the other two get advantages as well. So cyborgs would be fine if we maybe gave the reds the tesla trooper and desolator, with equal power. Then you could give the gens the angry mob, those things were really powerful if you didn't have flame/toxin/flashbang around to stop them. So when thinking about adding really powerful units, keep balance in mind.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Monday, June 28, 2004 8:39:32 AM

well if we add the cyborgs then dont forget that we can make them be alot weaker then in tib sun when it comes to balancing, and i think the reds are getting virus so i think a virus will be able to handle a cyborg just fine, and a cyborg in a 1vs1 against a buggy always was a close one, the buggy got killed but the cyborg was in red hp and he had no legs left, i tried it not to long ago in tib sun and what i say is true, they are like the light anti infantry vichles but they are way slower, thats one of their weaknesses, they are slower then normal infantry. but balancing wont be too hard because we can make units weaker if they are too strong, weaker against tank shells and missiles, laser lock on a cyborg could hurt alot because cyborgs are made of flesh and metal parts, because of this metal armor anti infantry weapons had little effect on them.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, June 28, 2004 4:34:57 PM
either way, with the lack of Sniers in Tib sun, a group of cyborgs was hard to stop.

Posted by: incia - Monday, June 28, 2004 5:06:48 PM

I remember that I had 2 small laser towers and a wall and a gate on Tib Sun... they made a surprice attack with Subterrain APC full of Cyborgs. They were so weak against structures that they couldn't kill anything. I repaired the gate and they never won over my 2 lame laser towers. No Obelisk of Light just 2 small laser towers. But one Cyborg took down 3-4 Wolverines one day... Sniper don't harm Cyborgs if I remember correctly??? Maybe they do... Tib Army: Cyborg RA Army: Rocketeer Gen Army: PathFinder If you give RA Army the Desolator... will they also have the Toxin Tractor? ´cause Toxin Tractor have the same ability Desolator has.

Posted by: CommieDog - Monday, June 28, 2004 5:57:58 PM

[quote=aConcernedCitizen17]lol. Thanks to our resident CommieDog for demonstrating what a perfectly no-good triple post looks like. :P [/quote] Heh, sorry about that. The duplcate posts have since been deleted. [quote=Incia]If you give RA Army the Desolator... will they also have the Toxin Tractor? ´cause Toxin Tractor have the same ability Desolator has. [/quote] Why would we want to give two units with the same abilities to the same side?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Monday, June 28, 2004 11:51:13 PM
toxin tractor makes no sense because the reds never had that. desolator would only toxicate infantry but i dont think that would have much effect on cyborgs for it´s mostly machine and it absorbs tiberium which is very very toxic. and how did you get it so far that one cyborg killed 4 of your wolverines? i once killed 3 cyborgs with 4 wolverines.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:35:45 AM
Toxin Tractor was only in Gen and ZH so there is no way it is going to the Reds.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:16:32 AM

I think if (And only if) cyborgs are in, we can change the crates in ZH that technicals could drive over to upgrade their weapons, but No other sides could do anything with those crates. Perhaps we change the model of the crates to look like a large peice of tiberium. Then only tibs side can drive over em. and when cyborg goes over em, he gets a Full-heal. Don't know if this'll work, but this is probably along the lines of where we should be looking.

Posted by: krit - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:39:06 AM
Problem No.1: Other units from the TS side will be picking them up Problem No.2: Cyborgs eat Tibutium??? (It dissappears when you pick it up)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 7:54:16 AM

[quote=aConcernedCitizen17] I think if (And only if) cyborgs are in, we can change the crates in ZH that technicals could drive over to upgrade their weapons, but No other sides could do anything with those crates. Perhaps we change the model of the crates to look like a large peice of tiberium. Then only tibs side can drive over em. and when cyborg goes over em, he gets a Full-heal. Don't know if this'll work, but this is probably along the lines of where we should be looking. [/quote] Interesting idea, but from what Krit said, I doubt it will work.

Posted by: incia - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:25:01 AM

[quote=cdlord] and how did you get it so far that one cyborg killed 4 of your wolverines? i once killed 3 cyborgs with 4 wolverines. [/quote] I think the fight was over an tiberium field, so the Cyborg owned the Wolverines. [quote=CommieDog] Why should the same army have two units who do the same ability? [/quote] And why they didn't make a come-back of the Desolator into Generals was maybe because Toxin Tractor uses the same ability as Desolator. If General Army have the Toxin Tractor then the RA Desolator would be useless... Then maybe give the WeedEater Tractor the Desolator ability and kill the Desolator itself. Then it would be for the Tib Army.

Posted by: XrRydr - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:50:43 AM
Also, I remember someone saying that infantry are hard to model and they might not want anymore. But if they did, I would think that the jump jets, disk thrower/drenadier, or the medic would be more important than trying to get cyborgs to work.

Posted by: incia - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:59:21 AM
Why Medic? He is lame in ZH, you can heal units on your Barracks and Ambulance and many other ways.

Posted by: krit - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 8:59:30 AM
Infantry modellers are very rare these days.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:06:31 AM
[quote=Incia][brAnd why they didn't make a come-back of the Desolator into Generals was maybe because Toxin Tractor uses the same ability as Desolator. If General Army have the Toxin Tractor then the RA Desolator would be useless... Then maybe give the WeedEater Tractor the Desolator ability and kill the Desolator itself. Then it would be for the Tib Army. [/quote] You've lost me with that logic.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 12:40:04 PM
lol, blb he lost me too there. i know massacre once made an infantry model, 200 poly´s it was i think.

Posted by: incia - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 4:27:29 PM

Well folks listen. Crazy Ivan and Desolators had one simple ability. Instead of doing one lame unit with one ability they merged the same ability into another unit. Toxin Tractor has the Fallout ability which means they didn't need to do a unique infantry with only that ability. They gave Tank Hunters the TNT attack ´cause they didn't want to model a new lame infantry with only that ability. Get me now?

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Tuesday, June 29, 2004 9:15:10 PM

[quote=Krit] Problem No.1: Other units from the TS side will be picking them up Problem No.2: Cyborgs eat Tibutium??? (It dissappears when you pick it up) [/quote] Answer to number 1: Well, we do just like in Zh how when one of those crates got run over by Technicals or scropion\marauder It would upgrade em. Everything else just got money from the crates. We tweak it so that When Cyborgs go over it they get Full health or something. Everything else would just get money from the crate\pile o tiberium. Answer to Number 2: Well, crates dissapear when run over by technicals and Inf. Terrorists are so poor they resort to eating crates?

Posted by: krit - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:21:39 AM

Problem to answer number 1: We are talking about crates made to look like tiburium here and having other none tiberium related units picking them up and upgrading them selves with tiberium or selling without being the harvestor would be a bit weird. Problem to answer number 2: Crates are crates, tiburiums are tiburiums, they are different. The GLA wound get money and other bonuses picking up crates (Selling them or using them) so that's alright. But having the TS side picking up POISONIOUS tiberium with none tiberium units will just be totally weird. Problem No.3: Other sides won't see those tiberium and their infantries will have no effect of tiberium poisoning when running over them...

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:59:34 AM
ok, guys I think it's time we gave up on this "crate" idea.

Posted by: XrRydr - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:26:49 AM
so then, do you have a better idea of what each faction will have? Will it be mostly the same as on your units page, or is it still far from final? What ideas do you like and seriously might use?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:38:41 AM
everything now is far from final, both in the staff forum and in this forum.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:12:27 AM
Alrighty. Well put Krit. Funny thing is that Cyborgs probably won't even be in the mod.:P We'll let you guys know what we've got when we've got something..to..let you know about? Did that sentence confuse you guys as much as it did me? Anyway. We'll tell you what we've got when we come up with something.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:10:22 AM
lol. You lost me for a sec there.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:15:46 AM
I lost myself for a sec blb. :P Think we should give all these guys something from the mod? Like a screen or something? Think they deserve it? :P

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:26:28 AM
yeah, a screen of robot tanks in action, who wants to see the robot tanks in action?

Posted by: XrRydr - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:35:23 AM
woah, robot tanks... I never heard anything about robot tanks. Are they going to hover and go over water and stuff?

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:13:12 PM

For everyone who'd like to know...Cdlord made robot tanks. With different upgrades for it like AA, Tesla, and Gatt gun upgrades etc. He wants them in the mod desperately. Smile, say yes alot, and maybe he'll go away. :) Just kidding guys. They look pretty sweet. We just don't have em skinned yet because we don't know if they're in or not. So, If you want cdlord you can put out that pic of all the different upgrades for it. Talk to Blb though first.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 5:30:14 PM
please release a screen aCC. Your choice of which.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:14:04 PM
Um. Ok then. Well everyone, keep an eye out for our exclusive release of... SOMEDAY SOMEDAY SOMEDAY!!!! "A SCREEN OF MY CHOICE!!!!". Showing in a Generals World front page near you! Talk to Blbpaws about seating and ticket purchases.

Posted by: krit - Thursday, July 1, 2004 2:03:49 AM

[quote=aConcernedCitizen17] For everyone who'd like to know...Cdlord made robot tanks. With different upgrades for it like AA, Tesla, and Gatt gun upgrades etc. He wants them in the mod desperately. Smile, say yes alot, and maybe he'll go away. :) Just kidding guys. They look pretty sweet. We just don't have em skinned yet because we don't know if they're in or not. So, If you want cdlord you can put out that pic of all the different upgrades for it. Talk to Blb though first. [/quote] Those models have some huge poly counts though [grin] Have you guys managed to reduce them?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 2:09:05 AM
they haven´t even worked on them because they aren´t sure if they are going to be in the mod, and we dont have that many tanks for the reds at all so i think we could just as well reduce the poly´s and skin the things.

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, July 1, 2004 3:46:57 AM
[quote=Krit]Those models have some huge poly counts though [grin] Have you guys managed to reduce them? [/quote] You should see the Construction Yard. [stuck_out_tongue]

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 4:23:25 AM
lol, thatone is so high it´s crazy.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 4:43:49 AM
[quote=cdlord] they haven´t even worked on them because they aren´t sure if they are going to be in the mod, and we dont have that many tanks for the reds at all so i think we could just as well reduce the poly´s and skin the things. [/quote] STOP TELLING ME HOW GREAT YOUR TANK IS.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:40:17 AM
i never said it was great did i? i just said we dont have that many tanks for the reds so we could just as well add this tank.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:25:43 AM
ok, fine then. STOP PROMOTING YOUR MODELS. Happy now?

Posted by: krit - Thursday, July 1, 2004 7:44:43 AM
LOL. Anyway, so what was the construction yard like? How much poly did it used up (Thinks about 2000+)?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:24:28 AM
I thought it was somewhere between 1500 and 2000 but Commie has the exact number.

Posted by: krit - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:46:41 AM
Have a screenie?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 9:59:05 AM
No comment.

Posted by: incia - Thursday, July 1, 2004 10:10:07 AM
So far what have you guys desided?

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, July 1, 2004 9:03:37 PM
[quote=Krit]LOL. Anyway, so what was the construction yard like? How much poly did it used up (Thinks about 2000+)? [/quote] 1,984 polygons at last count.

Posted by: krit - Thursday, July 1, 2004 10:35:20 PM
Do you think those polies are worth the detail on it?

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Thursday, July 1, 2004 11:07:35 PM
I think so. We cut it down from 2774 at first to now 1,984. It's a really detailed model and While modelling it, I founf it to almost be 3 buildings in one, so I knew the poly count would be high. However, since it's the CC you won't have more than one on the screen at any one time, and you won't build more than 5 or so total. Anyone else want to comment?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 11:09:56 PM
1 at a time, 4 playing reds is 4 at a time, each makes 3 more so that comes to 16 at total, could be alot still but most people wont make more then maybe 1 extra.

Posted by: krit - Thursday, July 1, 2004 11:33:58 PM
I still want to see a screen of it though...

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:00:39 AM
Well too bad. :P You're just going to have to wait like the rest of the public. Besides, You're not missing anything. You'll love the skin, but not the model. :P

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:13:25 AM
i could give you a screenie of it on msn[smirk]

Posted by: krit - Friday, July 2, 2004 3:58:40 AM
Only if the rest of your team allows it that is :P

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 4:04:12 AM
lol, but how will they ever find out that i showed it?

Posted by: krit - Friday, July 2, 2004 8:04:40 AM
They'll be after you if they think you did

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Friday, July 2, 2004 9:12:07 AM
And this convo isn't evidence or anything. Oh and cdlord...do something and all your hope and dreams that revolve around "Robot tanks" will be crushed...:) Just making sure you know that. :) Even though you probably already have.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:05:39 PM
[quote=aConcernedCitizen17] And this convo isn't evidence or anything. Oh and cdlord...do something and all your hope and dreams that revolve around "Robot tanks" will be crushed...:) Just making sure you know that. :) Even though you probably already have. [/quote] lol. My perfect revenge.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:34:06 PM
puts his hands over the delete button ready to remove all maps made for the mod....

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:00:04 PM
lol. That would be....one?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:15:18 PM
eh, yep. LOL well and one map that luckie really liked, it was a vulcano map but it could be used as crater lake.

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:19:29 PM
why would you need to make maps specific to this mod? The only you would need mod-specific maps is if we introduced a navy/island maps and means to attack that way (which is a possibility but nothing has been said for it to be included), or mission maps. As far I know the won't be any missions, at least not for the first release.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:33:14 PM
we are making remakes of maps from ra2 mostly and from some of tib sun, i did one remake from ra2 which needs to get some enhancing (ask luckie, he played it he can tell you all about the bad textures, textures aren´t one of the things which i´m really good at)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:51:38 PM
lol. I played your volcano map. I killed Luckie on it.

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 3:36:52 PM
oh cool that will be fun. What are some of the more well-known classic maps?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:07:55 PM
He's only done 1; Heck Freezes Over (from RA2).

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:12:17 PM

...what I meant was that which are some of the classic maps that you think are most well-known...i.e. which maps have plans to be recreated? I remember super bridge head redux was good, as well as tunnel training, but I'll assume that tunnels wouldn't be possible in generals so you could just replace them with bridges. There was another good ice one from TS, something about hexagons, and anther good ice one, ah yes "the ice must floe" I think it was.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:19:30 PM
I don't remember many TD/TS maps. My fav RA2 map was Arctic Circle, so I'll force cd to do that one. :)

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:40:45 PM

lol you have that robot tank black mail on him? But I don't really remember much RA2 maps, I mostly played custom maps, my fav custom one was "global domination", it was a map of the globe, each continent was represented as close to the actual shapes as possible, it was great but since navy is unplanned right now that wouldn't be possible. There was another good one that was in the shape of North America, including Greenland, but I think this an official zero map now, but I think that one was too small. One of the official RA2 maps that I liked was "Invasion confirmed", it basically had people starting in the four corners, and there was a big lake taking up the middle. The land was urban and there was two oil derricks by each corner, as well as other tech buildings scaterred about the city. There were probably other good ones too, but agian I mostly played custom for RA2.

Posted by: krit - Saturday, July 3, 2004 8:17:28 AM
I just though of something, will you guys be using the Allied or Soviet buildings? I just made a test and made an Allied C-Yard and it only resulted with 1178 polies.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, July 3, 2004 9:03:57 AM
we had a soviet C-Yard

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, July 3, 2004 11:36:06 AM
A Soviet C-Yard but in general a mix of both.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Saturday, July 3, 2004 12:28:44 PM

We're trying to balance the number of soviet units and structures to the allied units and structures. My soviet c-yard resulted in a high poly count because I put too much into needless details. I didn't use several shortcuts etc, that could have reduced it's poly count to possibly 1500. And also, I've found many ways since then to set up certain models to have many details but also many inward and downward facing polyswhich can be deleted. I've found that I can nearly halve the poly count of a building or unit by using persistent and dedicated optimizing. Commie saved off as much as possible, but it wasn't a well made model in the first place. However, because it's the C-yard we could afford to have a pretty high poly count. If you wouldn't mind though, I'd love to see your Allied c-yard.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, July 3, 2004 1:44:52 PM
Krit, would you be interested in working on AS in addition to Rise of The Reds (kind of like a part time job)?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, July 3, 2004 1:50:11 PM
i kinda saw that question coming.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, July 3, 2004 3:14:10 PM
lol. I've been thinking it over for a while.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Saturday, July 3, 2004 5:01:08 PM
Who didn't. I'd love to see him as staff here. As long as it's not too stressing going between RotR and AS. Otherwise, We'd love to have ya.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, July 3, 2004 5:37:10 PM
I can't imagine it would be stressful. I think it would be more work (which might cause "stress."

Posted by: krit - Saturday, July 3, 2004 5:47:10 PM
All of the models for ROTR are done but I'm currently helping the Contra mod in exchange for the kindness of their leader as he had joined the ROTR team. There also another project I'm in but I'm not telling you what it is cause it's top secret.

Posted by: incia - Saturday, July 3, 2004 6:06:53 PM
"top secret" [grin] I love that word.

Posted by: KingRaptor89 - Saturday, July 3, 2004 10:27:49 PM
mmmm...what bout superweapons?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, July 4, 2004 7:44:04 AM
We'll have them. So Krit is that a no?

Posted by: krit - Sunday, July 4, 2004 8:18:51 AM
Nope

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:36:38 AM
so blb asks if that was a no, and your answer to that question is no so does that mean that the answer to the question if you wanted to help us is yes?

Posted by: incia - Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:40:12 AM
Sounds like that.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, July 4, 2004 3:35:19 PM
lol. Krit is that a no? :)

Posted by: krit - Sunday, July 4, 2004 7:22:24 PM
Nope as in "Nope, not joining" not nope as in "Nope, you're not wrong I want to join you" that nope was the first negative nope not the second positive nope so in conclusion it's "Nope, I'm not joining you" Goes back to work on his boxy looking MiG-31

Posted by: Luckie - Sunday, July 4, 2004 7:38:00 PM

"but I'm currently helping the Contra mod in exchange for the kindness of their leader as he had joined the ROTR team" - Krit Not mean't in any bad ways, but do you ever walk around, just to walk around? Or play a game because it's only a game? Or smell a flower just because you can? Or engage in sex without paying? It's just that you, Krit, always seem to be looking for something. A reward, a trade. I think you need to learn that in life, there is more to giving a hand than what you can get in writing, put in your pocket, or spend at the store. Until you can see these intangibles, I won't ask for your help. I make absolutly no plea for you to join the all-stars team. All I ask is that you reconsider what is really important in life. If you think that Bill Gates got where he was by being ruthless or bartering favors, you're only partially right. I show no respect for that man but can garentee if you ask him whether doing a simple favor for someone has ever paid off when he never thought it would, he would say yes.

Posted by: krit - Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:59:06 PM
Hey! I'm not like that!

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, July 4, 2004 10:46:29 PM
ROTFLMAO what got into luckie?

Posted by: CommieDog - Sunday, July 4, 2004 11:06:39 PM
Luckie, I know you didn't intend it, but that post can be construed as offensive.

Posted by: krit - Monday, July 5, 2004 12:40:50 AM
I don't mind it...

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, July 5, 2004 5:33:44 AM

[quote=CommieDog] Luckie, I know you didn't intend it, but that post can be construed as offensive. [/quote] Anything can be taken the wrong way. If Krit doesn't want to join, that's fine. I don't care, I'm just always trying to improve my team. I'm in no position to reprimand Luckie (I never am, except when we're playing Generals) and even if I were I would let it go. If it was flaming, it was considered thought out flaming. It wasn't just a random outburst.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Monday, July 5, 2004 7:42:52 AM
i wanna say one thing, i saw krits allied and soviet conyard, they are both great really really great, you guys should see them.

Posted by: incia - Monday, July 5, 2004 8:31:20 AM
"Not mean't in any bad ways, but do you ever walk around, just to walk around? Or play a game because it's only a game? Or smell a flower just because you can? Or engage in sex without paying?" This was the first intelligent and funny post I seen so far by Luckie, thanks. Yeah, cdlord you are right.

Posted by: Luckie - Monday, July 5, 2004 11:36:39 AM
lol. It wasnt meant to be offensive, just overly sarcastic.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, July 5, 2004 11:50:25 AM
lol. OK, I think w're past that one,

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