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Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:50:24 AM
in the airstrip topic i was talking about that the fist of nod (a unit that deploy´s into a war fac and that undeploy´s so it can move away) would be a nice adition to the mod together with the air strip, only some ppl think that the fist of nod would make the airstrip useless which is totally not true. the fist would be more expensive then the air strip (cost around 3k) and it would be good for putting in small outposts so you can have tanks on the front there faster. in the airstrip topic there was the idea of letting the airplane drop tanks anywhere on the map for a costy upgrade, i think this is a waste of your money and that instead of that upgrade we should use the fist of nod which would in the end cost you less money, building airstrips in your outposts would take up too much space so thats why a small compact war fac would be suited better for such places. and with a mobile stealth generator it would be even more effective (mobile stealth generator isn´t in the mod, just one of my ideas)

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:50:24 AM

in the airstrip topic i was talking about that the fist of nod (a unit that deploy´s into a war fac and that undeploy´s so it can move away) would be a nice adition to the mod together with the air strip, only some ppl think that the fist of nod would make the airstrip useless which is totally not true. the fist would be more expensive then the air strip (cost around 3k) and it would be good for putting in small outposts so you can have tanks on the front there faster. in the airstrip topic there was the idea of letting the airplane drop tanks anywhere on the map for a costy upgrade, i think this is a waste of your money and that instead of that upgrade we should use the fist of nod which would in the end cost you less money, building airstrips in your outposts would take up too much space so thats why a small compact war fac would be suited better for such places. and with a mobile stealth generator it would be even more effective (mobile stealth generator isn´t in the mod, just one of my ideas)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:24:54 AM
Do you ever stop promoting your ideas? :)

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 6:42:54 AM
i just want to know what others think of it, commiedog did it for his airstrip too, so why not me for the fist :)

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:23:06 AM
Commie did it for his airstip, not Luckie. And Commie did testing beforehand.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:24:29 AM
well fist aint that complicated so i dont think it needs testing and commiedog said it was possible.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:25:55 AM
Why don't we make sure it's possible first?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 8:31:26 AM
well if commiedog says it's possible then it's possible, he's always right isn't he?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, July 1, 2004 9:58:12 AM
He has yet to assure it.

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, July 1, 2004 12:56:38 PM
....before we go off exploring new ideas for transportation and mobile building and such we need to figure out how the airfield will work. First it needs to be decided whether or not there will even be an airfiled, and if so, how it will work. Once we know that we can ponder the possibility of a fist. If the airfield is used and it can drop tanks anywhere then the fist will be useless. It would take time for the fist to arrive at the destination, an airplane would get there faster. And I would rather have the airplane be shot down (if it will be made shootable, in tibdawn it was not) than the fist, compare the loss of an $800 tank or a $3000 toy. The only advantage that the fist would have in that situation that I can see is if the plane can be shot down and the fist is alrady there. If any other variant is used (war/weapons factory and airfield would be the same if the tank would only be dropped next to the airfield) then yes, a fist of nod would be cool. As long as everyone has some other way of transporting tanks quickly then I would see it as balanced as well. The chinook/helix would work for the generals and as long as the hover transport wasn't as slow as it was in RA2 then it would be ok.

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, July 1, 2004 12:56:38 PM

....before we go off exploring new ideas for transportation and mobile building and such we need to figure out how the airfield will work. First it needs to be decided whether or not there will even be an airfiled, and if so, how it will work. Once we know that we can ponder the possibility of a fist. If the airfield is used and it can drop tanks anywhere then the fist will be useless. It would take time for the fist to arrive at the destination, an airplane would get there faster. And I would rather have the airplane be shot down (if it will be made shootable, in tibdawn it was not) than the fist, compare the loss of an $800 tank or a $3000 toy. The only advantage that the fist would have in that situation that I can see is if the plane can be shot down and the fist is alrady there. If any other variant is used (war/weapons factory and airfield would be the same if the tank would only be dropped next to the airfield) then yes, a fist of nod would be cool. As long as everyone has some other way of transporting tanks quickly then I would see it as balanced as well. The chinook/helix would work for the generals and as long as the hover transport wasn't as slow as it was in RA2 then it would be ok.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 1:04:55 PM
from looking at the poll about the airfield i guess it will be in. and if the plane can drop units anywhere on the map then it will cost money to do so because you could just drop tanks right into the enemy base very early and that wouldn´t be balanced, and because of it costing money a fist would cost less money if you want tanks to be build somewhere then to drop them there, dropping might be faster but if it costs more then you can´t drop as many tanks as that you could make with the fist, that will give the enemy an advantage which isn´t really nice. the enemy can just build a war fac in their outpost, with this air strip you cannot do such a thing very easily because that air strip can´t be as small as a war fac, would be strange if it is. so i think the tanks will be dropped next to the air strip (would be the most logical thing to do)

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 1:04:55 PM

from looking at the poll about the airfield i guess it will be in. and if the plane can drop units anywhere on the map then it will cost money to do so because you could just drop tanks right into the enemy base very early and that wouldn´t be balanced, and because of it costing money a fist would cost less money if you want tanks to be build somewhere then to drop them there, dropping might be faster but if it costs more then you can´t drop as many tanks as that you could make with the fist, that will give the enemy an advantage which isn´t really nice. the enemy can just build a war fac in their outpost, with this air strip you cannot do such a thing very easily because that air strip can´t be as small as a war fac, would be strange if it is. so i think the tanks will be dropped next to the air strip (would be the most logical thing to do)

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, July 1, 2004 4:51:29 PM
Well, assuming that there is an airfield and that it will be able to drop tanks anywhere.... If it is going to cost extra in order to drop them anywhere I would think that it would be a one time cost (the only other way is to add a 300-400 premium to each tank but that would really but tiberia at a disadvantage at not really a good thing, seeing as this will be their only way to get vehicles). For a one time cost I couldn't imagine it being more than $3000, the cost of the said fist. I think the most expensive upgrade in generals now is $2000. Also, I think that what commie was saying was that the only possble way for the airfiled to work is by being able to choose where the tank lands. If there will be an upgrade required to choose, it is also required in order to build a tank period. If that is the case, remember that the fist will be build at the airfield anyway and that if building the fist is an option, then so is landing a tank anywhere. In addition, I remember that in tibdawn the airstrip was indeed the same size as a weapons factory, maybe just one square longer. But size shouldn't be a problem for the airstrip

Posted by: XrRydr - Thursday, July 1, 2004 4:51:29 PM

Well, assuming that there is an airfield and that it will be able to drop tanks anywhere.... If it is going to cost extra in order to drop them anywhere I would think that it would be a one time cost (the only other way is to add a 300-400 premium to each tank but that would really but tiberia at a disadvantage at not really a good thing, seeing as this will be their only way to get vehicles). For a one time cost I couldn't imagine it being more than $3000, the cost of the said fist. I think the most expensive upgrade in generals now is $2000. Also, I think that what commie was saying was that the only possble way for the airfiled to work is by being able to choose where the tank lands. If there will be an upgrade required to choose, it is also required in order to build a tank period. If that is the case, remember that the fist will be build at the airfield anyway and that if building the fist is an option, then so is landing a tank anywhere. In addition, I remember that in tibdawn the airstrip was indeed the same size as a weapons factory, maybe just one square longer. But size shouldn't be a problem for the airstrip

Posted by: incia - Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:00:14 PM
Only Airstrip. And in TD it was Weapons Factory.

Posted by: aConcernedCitizen17 - Thursday, July 1, 2004 5:41:07 PM
Well cdlord. If you really want it in the mod that bad, go ahead and whip up a model of it so we can see if we want it or not. :)

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, July 1, 2004 10:12:09 PM
[quote=cdlord]in the airstrip topic i was talking about that the fist of nod (a unit that deploy´s into a war fac and that undeploy´s so it can move away) would be a nice adition to the mod together with the air strip, only some ppl think that the fist of nod would make the airstrip useless which is totally not true. [/quote] For clarity, the Airfield I am advocating (the one with the tankdrop) would make the Fist of Nod useless, not the other way around. [quote=cdlord]the fist would be more expensive then the air strip (cost around 3k) and it would be good for putting in small outposts so you can have tanks on the front there faster. in the airstrip topic there was the idea of letting the airplane drop tanks anywhere on the map for a costy upgrade, i think this is a waste of your money and that instead of that upgrade we should use the fist of nod which would in the end cost you less money [/quote] $3000 is a lot of money for a unit that could be destroyed by 2 Raptors. Assuming that the Airstrip would cost $2000 and the upgrade on average $1000 per Airstrip, the Airstrip (which has normal structure armor at least, as Incia attests) would be a more sound investment, particularly if the upgrade was a one-time global upgrade. [quote=cdlord]building airstrips in your outposts would take up too much space so thats why a small compact war fac would be suited better for such places. and with a mobile stealth generator it would be even more effective (mobile stealth generator isn´t in the mod, just one of my ideas) [/quote] The oppurtunity to upgrade the Airstrip to order paradrops is what promted me to publicly propose the idea of the Airstrip. [quote=cdlord]well fist aint that complicated so i dont think it needs testing [/quote] You're talking about something that does not exist in Generals or Zero Hour: deploying units and undeploying buildings. Of course I'll need to test this. [quote=cdlord]commiedog said it was possible. [/quote] ...I did? [open_mouth] [quote=XrRydr]Well, assuming that there is an airfield and that it will be able to drop tanks anywhere.... If it is going to cost extra in order to drop them anywhere I would think that it would be a one time cost (the only other way is to add a 300-400 premium to each tank but that would really but tiberia at a disadvantage at not really a good thing, seeing as this will be their only way to get vehicles). [/quote] There is another way: a cost-per-Airstrip upgrade. [quote=XrRydr]I think the most expensive upgrade in generals now is $2000. [/quote] $2500, I believe. [quote=XrRydr]Also, I think that what commie was saying was that the only possble way for the airfiled to work is by being able to choose where the tank lands. If there will be an upgrade required to choose, it is also required in order to build a tank period. [/quote] No. I meant that you could turn it on with an upgrade. So there are three options:[list=1] []Always have the Airstrip drop vehicles only at the Airstrip. (very cumbersome) []Have the Airstrip start by dropping only at the Airstrip but upgrade it to drop anywhere. (my recommendation) [*]Have the Airstrip begin by being able to drop vehicles anywhere. (as cdlord ponited out, this would make killer rushes) [/list]

Posted by: CommieDog - Thursday, July 1, 2004 10:12:09 PM

[quote=cdlord]in the airstrip topic i was talking about that the fist of nod (a unit that deploy´s into a war fac and that undeploy´s so it can move away) would be a nice adition to the mod together with the air strip, only some ppl think that the fist of nod would make the airstrip useless which is totally not true. [/quote] For clarity, the Airfield I am advocating (the one with the tankdrop) would make the Fist of Nod useless, not the other way around. [quote=cdlord]the fist would be more expensive then the air strip (cost around 3k) and it would be good for putting in small outposts so you can have tanks on the front there faster. in the airstrip topic there was the idea of letting the airplane drop tanks anywhere on the map for a costy upgrade, i think this is a waste of your money and that instead of that upgrade we should use the fist of nod which would in the end cost you less money [/quote] $3000 is a lot of money for a unit that could be destroyed by 2 Raptors. Assuming that the Airstrip would cost $2000 and the upgrade on average $1000 per Airstrip, the Airstrip (which has normal structure armor at least, as Incia attests) would be a more sound investment, particularly if the upgrade was a one-time global upgrade. [quote=cdlord]building airstrips in your outposts would take up too much space so thats why a small compact war fac would be suited better for such places. and with a mobile stealth generator it would be even more effective (mobile stealth generator isn´t in the mod, just one of my ideas) [/quote] The oppurtunity to upgrade the Airstrip to order paradrops is what promted me to publicly propose the idea of the Airstrip. [quote=cdlord]well fist aint that complicated so i dont think it needs testing [/quote] You're talking about something that does not exist in Generals or Zero Hour: deploying units and undeploying buildings. Of course I'll need to test this. [quote=cdlord]commiedog said it was possible. [/quote] ...I did? [open_mouth] [quote=XrRydr]Well, assuming that there is an airfield and that it will be able to drop tanks anywhere.... If it is going to cost extra in order to drop them anywhere I would think that it would be a one time cost (the only other way is to add a 300-400 premium to each tank but that would really but tiberia at a disadvantage at not really a good thing, seeing as this will be their only way to get vehicles). [/quote] There is another way: a cost-per-Airstrip upgrade. [quote=XrRydr]I think the most expensive upgrade in generals now is $2000. [/quote] $2500, I believe. [quote=XrRydr]Also, I think that what commie was saying was that the only possble way for the airfiled to work is by being able to choose where the tank lands. If there will be an upgrade required to choose, it is also required in order to build a tank period. [/quote] No. I meant that you could turn it on with an upgrade. So there are three options:[list=1] [*]Always have the Airstrip drop vehicles only at the Airstrip. (very cumbersome) [*]Have the Airstrip start by dropping only at the Airstrip but upgrade it to drop anywhere. (my recommendation) [*]Have the Airstrip begin by being able to drop vehicles anywhere. (as cdlord ponited out, this would make killer rushes) [/list]

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, July 1, 2004 11:08:24 PM
i would go for option 1 out of those 3 options, then you can still add the fist. option 3 is impossible to balance, option 2 would be good if there only is the airstrip but the upgrade should require a strat center build.

Posted by: Mr Titch - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:00:55 AM
i know this is off topic but how do u record ppl's quotes?? and i htink tht the fist of nod is a good idea for the tibs as it saves them having to build buidlings over the map. It also gives the side an individual edge to it [grin]

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:08:29 AM
well as I may have said before I think that option two would be most fun with the upgrade for each airstrip. It will certaintly cause some balancing problems but as long as the plane can be shot down and/or the other sides have good methods of mass tank transportation that it will be fine

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:47:08 AM
Can someone explain what's wrong with #1? It's what TD had and it worked fine.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 7:00:10 AM
i think we should do what was in TD itself, because 2 could still make some balance problems, if the plane can be shot down then the enemy could try to make an outpost with lots of aa and shoot all the planes down thats not nice. i think if we do it as how it's in TD that it will be better and easier, and we could add the fist too then if we want too.

Posted by: XrRydr - Friday, July 2, 2004 8:43:16 AM
lol ok then. #1 choice is also great. Now cdlord can use his fist in a useful way[grin].

Posted by: incia - Friday, July 2, 2004 9:48:29 AM
[quote=Mr Titch] i know this is off topic but how do u record ppl's quotes??[grin] [/quote] People that have made a post can be quoted. You just klick on one of the icons over the post itself, it will say something like "quote this post". And the reason I did vote for only airstrip is cause I really don't get the idea with the fist of NOD. Do you mean Fist of NOD or Hand of NOD? I think one Hand of NOD would work but not the mobile war factory. Also in TD the airplane that droped the tanks was unable to be shot down.

Posted by: incia - Friday, July 2, 2004 9:48:29 AM

[quote=Mr Titch] i know this is off topic but how do u record ppl's quotes??[grin] [/quote] People that have made a post can be quoted. You just klick on one of the icons over the post itself, it will say something like "quote this post". And the reason I did vote for only airstrip is cause I really don't get the idea with the fist of NOD. Do you mean Fist of NOD or Hand of NOD? I think one Hand of NOD would work but not the mobile war factory. Also in TD the airplane that droped the tanks was unable to be shot down.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 11:36:08 AM
the fist of nod is the mobile war fac that deploy's. if we add stealth generators (if possible, commie said it wasn't...) then it can be used even better, it would just make you able to build on many places.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:06:21 PM
Sealth gens are not possible.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Friday, July 2, 2004 12:30:26 PM
but changing it into a upgrade for each unit that costs as much as a hellfire drone would be possible, kinda like the stealth gen what he has for his buildings, that could be done and then maybe for the units too. it´s just an idea but maybe it could be something.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 2:00:58 PM
it's not exactly from CNC

Posted by: CommieDog - Friday, July 2, 2004 5:35:01 PM
[quote=cdlord]option 2 would be good if there only is the airstrip but the upgrade should require a strat center build. [/quote] I agree. It would need to be available late in the game. [quote=Blbpaws]Can someone explain what's wrong with #1? It's what TD had and it worked fine. [/quote] TD didn't have rally points. [quote=cdlord]i think we should do what was in TD itself, because 2 could still make some balance problems, if the plane can be shot down then the enemy could try to make an outpost with lots of aa and shoot all the planes down thats not nice. [/quote] That would be a problem with any Airstrip (unless, as Incia pointed out, we make the transport plane invulnerable). [quote=Blbpaws]it's not exactly from CNC [/quote] We'll have to compromise some CnC-ness for upgrades, Blbpaws.

Posted by: CommieDog - Friday, July 2, 2004 5:35:01 PM

[quote=cdlord]option 2 would be good if there only is the airstrip but the upgrade should require a strat center build. [/quote] I agree. It would need to be available late in the game. [quote=Blbpaws]Can someone explain what's wrong with #1? It's what TD had and it worked fine. [/quote] TD didn't have rally points. [quote=cdlord]i think we should do what was in TD itself, because 2 could still make some balance problems, if the plane can be shot down then the enemy could try to make an outpost with lots of aa and shoot all the planes down thats not nice. [/quote] That would be a problem with any Airstrip (unless, as Incia pointed out, we make the transport plane invulnerable). [quote=Blbpaws]it's not exactly from CNC [/quote] We'll have to compromise some CnC-ness for upgrades, Blbpaws.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:17:24 PM
[quote=CommieDog] [quote=cdlord]option 2 would be good if there only is the airstrip but the upgrade should require a strat center build. [/quote] I agree. It would need to be available late in the game. [/quote] Agreement here as well. [quote][quote=Blbpaws]it's not exactly from CNC [/quote] We'll have to compromise some CnC-ness for upgrades, Blbpaws. [/quote] Yes, but upgrades were a must, this isn't.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, July 2, 2004 6:17:24 PM

[quote=CommieDog] [quote=cdlord]option 2 would be good if there only is the airstrip but the upgrade should require a strat center build. [/quote] I agree. It would need to be available late in the game. [/quote] Agreement here as well. [quote][quote=Blbpaws]it's not exactly from CNC [/quote] We'll have to compromise some CnC-ness for upgrades, Blbpaws. [/quote] Yes, but upgrades were a must, this isn't.

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, July 3, 2004 10:55:18 PM
Good news, cdlord. It looks like the Fist of Nod is indeed possible, with a few issues:[list=1] []Whenever the Fist of Nod deploys or undeploys, it is magically healed to full strength. []The Fist of Nod will not demand any room beyond the dimensions of the undeployed model before deploying. Fortunately, any units 'squished' by the deployed Fist of Nod can move out from under it. []The deploy command needs to wait for its turn in the queue before it can be processed. []A radar map event will be generated every time the Fist of Nod deploys or undeploys. [/list]

Posted by: CommieDog - Saturday, July 3, 2004 10:55:18 PM

Good news, cdlord. It looks like the Fist of Nod is indeed possible, with a few issues:[list=1] [*]Whenever the Fist of Nod deploys or undeploys, it is magically healed to full strength. [*]The Fist of Nod will not demand any room beyond the dimensions of the undeployed model before deploying. Fortunately, any units 'squished' by the deployed Fist of Nod can move out from under it. [*]The deploy command needs to wait for its turn in the queue before it can be processed. [*]A radar map event will be generated every time the Fist of Nod deploys or undeploys. [/list]

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, July 3, 2004 11:24:39 PM
4. what does tha mean? 1. that would be funny lol, it does add some strategy you would have to quickly destroy it, use enough air units and such. if we just let the deploying and undeploying take 5-10 seconds then they can´t do that to much.

Posted by: XrRydr - Sunday, July 4, 2004 5:36:24 AM
The radar map event is just a yellow square homing in on the event on your radar. I think you can just press spacebar and it takes you to the last event also.

Posted by: incia - Sunday, July 4, 2004 6:41:04 AM
I think we kill the idea of Fist of NOD.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, July 4, 2004 7:33:12 AM
any good reasons for that? as far as i´ve seen most units and buildings are gdi, the obelisk is nod and maybe the powerplant but the strongest units and most of the air units are gdi, the basic tank is gdi too.

Posted by: incia - Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:42:58 AM
Well have the stealth units added... that's the biggest part of NOD and flame.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Sunday, July 4, 2004 1:10:00 PM
there´s only one stealth unit, but no flame as far as i know. the stealth will be added already and so will the gdi hover craft thing, they both have thesame weapons only different abilities.

Posted by: incia - Sunday, July 4, 2004 2:19:50 PM
Didn't Tib Army have the flamethrower infantry?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, July 4, 2004 3:36:39 PM
Tibs have a Flame Tank.

Posted by: CommieDog - Sunday, July 4, 2004 9:45:07 PM
And infantry too, right? Or did you decide to remove that?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, July 5, 2004 5:29:52 AM
I think that is gone.

Posted by: incia - Monday, July 5, 2004 8:32:56 AM
What infantry will replace the Flamethrower?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, July 5, 2004 11:55:00 AM
we;re undecided. We might keep the flamethrower. The options are still open.

Posted by: incia - Monday, July 5, 2004 12:31:58 PM
I think you should keep the flamer, I mean the flamethrower.

Posted by: CommieDog - Monday, July 5, 2004 5:34:48 PM
The Flame Tank was high up the tech tree, wasn't it? I think there's still room for both.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, July 6, 2004 4:51:33 AM
OK. That's possible, if not probable.

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