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Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 7, 2004 12:01:52 PM
Right guys i am sick and tired of the crappy AI in this game... you can only play 7 comps against you and 7 hard AIs v 1 human should be impossible, it aint, its quite easy actually and quite boring as you simply have to destroy more stuff which takes longer. What really driven me mad was a 3 hour match against 7 hard ais in which i did not lose a single unit. Not one, 7 hard ais that get extra cheat money could not kill even a bloody soldier or destroy a building, no its not that the infantry general eats tank gen butt, its just plain dumb AI. therefore i decided to change the game's AI myself. it is a pile of ****. thousand of scripts all put on in a lazy manner, many of them to fix bugs that the lazy developers didnt stomp out (eg the AI gets $2200 because they pay for the dozer they start with and the chinook that comes with supply center). my first mess about resulted in an AI that wouldnt build and just died. A second try got a SWG that used only auroras a third one resulted in this same SWG building 3x more troops, and getting his whole base up twice as fast, along with capturing more tech buildings and using better upgrades (countermeasures for planes and flashbangs for infantry). I also got it to use lots of tomahawks with S&D, bombing the enmy from afar. I like the way its going and im tempted to completely rewrite the AI of the game. There are thousands of scripts, and having 12 different armies doesnt help. for now im working with a swg that is a complete bastard. it will use alphas on your factories, rush to tech buildings, build 10 PCUs and tomahawk your butt off... [size=7]EDIT: v0.2 beta has been released! get it here! [url]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/page.asp?page=zerohour:advancedaimod[/url][/size] keep tuned for updates :D

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 7, 2004 12:01:52 PM

Right guys i am sick and tired of the crappy AI in this game... you can only play 7 comps against you and 7 hard AIs v 1 human should be impossible, it aint, its quite easy actually and quite boring as you simply have to destroy more stuff which takes longer. What really driven me mad was a 3 hour match against 7 hard ais in which i did not lose a single unit. Not one, 7 hard ais that get extra cheat money could not kill even a bloody soldier or destroy a building, no its not that the infantry general eats tank gen butt, its just plain dumb AI. therefore i decided to change the game's AI myself. it is a pile of ****. thousand of scripts all put on in a lazy manner, many of them to fix bugs that the lazy developers didnt stomp out (eg the AI gets $2200 because they pay for the dozer they start with and the chinook that comes with supply center). my first mess about resulted in an AI that wouldnt build and just died. A second try got a SWG that used only auroras a third one resulted in this same SWG building 3x more troops, and getting his whole base up twice as fast, along with capturing more tech buildings and using better upgrades (countermeasures for planes and flashbangs for infantry). I also got it to use lots of tomahawks with S&D, bombing the enmy from afar. I like the way its going and im tempted to completely rewrite the AI of the game. There are thousands of scripts, and having 12 different armies doesnt help. for now im working with a swg that is a complete bastard. it will use alphas on your factories, rush to tech buildings, build 10 PCUs and tomahawk your butt off... [size=7]EDIT: v0.2 beta has been released! get it here! [url]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/page.asp?page=zerohour:advancedaimod[/url][/size] keep tuned for updates :D

Posted by: MicScoTho - Friday, May 7, 2004 12:08:55 PM
Too much for this forum to handle - only because we have a limit set [stuck_out_tongue] Us at Generals World may be interested in hosting your mod. Of course, we're interested in knowing more details about it and its progress. And naturally, we'd like to have this done in a professional manner. So, let me know when you have more updates, and I'll stay tuned [smile]

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, May 7, 2004 1:36:05 PM
Very, very interested. I have been searching for an AI guy for two weeks. You might just be the one.

Posted by: swish - Friday, May 7, 2004 1:40:01 PM
you double posted.

Posted by: Thegimp - Friday, May 7, 2004 1:57:44 PM
Very very True and nice work with the AI idea..I like it :P

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, May 7, 2004 3:00:24 PM
Tell us how it goes Lion. I like the idea.

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:31:31 AM
DO you have anykind of real time frame of which this would be complete? Its got my attention

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:34:06 AM
UPDATE POST 1: i tried changing many variables in the AI logic, as before, im working in the SWG. I ran into a problem: i can tell the AI when to build but not what to build, so i can make it build a reactor first so it can go up the tech tree but not make it build more PCUs at the moment. I can make it build as many units as i want though. My new test AI built 2 Pcus and had two more in construction before any of the other AIs finished even building a palace/propaganda center or strategy center. I also tweaked the attack squads. the AI now sends lots of tomahawk launchers in enough number to take many tanks out, and missile defenders coupled with avengers make it even more formidable. the group is extremely effective but i need pathfinders to make it good V infantry units, i am looking on how to make it pick the pathfinder with its gen points. I had a few test matches 1v1 and 1v1v1 on twilight flame, the SWG won every single one of them. It built up its base extremely quick (5-6 dozers) and went for superweapons straight away. Incoming units were bombed by auroras and survivors hit by emp patriots and large groups of comanches. Sneak attacks/ambushes were EMPd and destroyed by comanches. After eliminating the enemies resource getherers with ion cannons it ususally launched an attack on 3 fronts and bombarded the base with tomahawks, defending tanks were eliminated by tomahawks and MDs, while enemy aritllery was mostly stopped by avengers or destroyed by tomahawks before they could fire as S&D gives them the range advantage. I am now working on the code to make auroras work properly, when attacking the enemy base they will fire at any enemies on the way and carry on to the enemy base at 50% of their speed and with no ammo, getting shot down pointlessly. i need to figure out how to make it build what i want (more airfields for auroras, more defenses, more PCUs) and it will be a formidable opponent. By the way, if you can set the limit to 300k or something and allow RAR files i could upload replays of the AI in action.. it aint impressive right now but it beats any other hard general, ill be doing 2v1s tonight

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:34:06 AM

UPDATE POST 1: i tried changing many variables in the AI logic, as before, im working in the SWG. I ran into a problem: i can tell the AI when to build but not what to build, so i can make it build a reactor first so it can go up the tech tree but not make it build more PCUs at the moment. I can make it build as many units as i want though. My new test AI built 2 Pcus and had two more in construction before any of the other AIs finished even building a palace/propaganda center or strategy center. I also tweaked the attack squads. the AI now sends lots of tomahawk launchers in enough number to take many tanks out, and missile defenders coupled with avengers make it even more formidable. the group is extremely effective but i need pathfinders to make it good V infantry units, i am looking on how to make it pick the pathfinder with its gen points. I had a few test matches 1v1 and 1v1v1 on twilight flame, the SWG won every single one of them. It built up its base extremely quick (5-6 dozers) and went for superweapons straight away. Incoming units were bombed by auroras and survivors hit by emp patriots and large groups of comanches. Sneak attacks/ambushes were EMPd and destroyed by comanches. After eliminating the enemies resource getherers with ion cannons it ususally launched an attack on 3 fronts and bombarded the base with tomahawks, defending tanks were eliminated by tomahawks and MDs, while enemy aritllery was mostly stopped by avengers or destroyed by tomahawks before they could fire as S&D gives them the range advantage. I am now working on the code to make auroras work properly, when attacking the enemy base they will fire at any enemies on the way and carry on to the enemy base at 50% of their speed and with no ammo, getting shot down pointlessly. i need to figure out how to make it build what i want (more airfields for auroras, more defenses, more PCUs) and it will be a formidable opponent. By the way, if you can set the limit to 300k or something and allow RAR files i could upload replays of the AI in action.. it aint impressive right now but it beats any other hard general, ill be doing 2v1s tonight

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:41:42 AM
Isnt it kinda bias that your wanting a harder AI yet your the one making the changes. You will know what to expect from the AI. Just seems kinda odd

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:43:43 AM
In reply to rlgl81's post, it will NEVER be finished. AI is one thing you can always improve on. Right now im just messing about with it to learn the workings of the AI. It seems very complex but im not sure if i can make a smart AI or a "pro" AI (smart AI = adapts to your every move. "pro" AI = WC3 AI, efficient and lethal but dumb) as it uses a primitive predication system such as this: IF [game starts] THEN Build barracks IF [you have 3000 credits and a supply center] THEN build war factory and so on.. ill see what i can do with it, but so far i can make the AI some good twice as hard to beat at the very least. and in reply to you post just above, the AI is pretty predictable already anyways. but if it takes out your power with alphas, then ion cannons your war factories, leaflet drops your tanks in you base then tomahawks your butt off while a burton bombs your buildings, even if you know its gonna do it will make it a challenge. UPDATE: i also found out it could be possible to make "templates" for each general that are picked at random and they can dictate what the AI will build/attack with. It will be too much work to make a complete template but that might just leave you wondering whats coming for you

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:43:43 AM

In reply to rlgl81's post, it will NEVER be finished. AI is one thing you can always improve on. Right now im just messing about with it to learn the workings of the AI. It seems very complex but im not sure if i can make a smart AI or a "pro" AI (smart AI = adapts to your every move. "pro" AI = WC3 AI, efficient and lethal but dumb) as it uses a primitive predication system such as this: IF [game starts] THEN Build barracks IF [you have 3000 credits and a supply center] THEN build war factory and so on.. ill see what i can do with it, but so far i can make the AI some good twice as hard to beat at the very least. and in reply to you post just above, the AI is pretty predictable already anyways. but if it takes out your power with alphas, then ion cannons your war factories, leaflet drops your tanks in you base then tomahawks your butt off while a burton bombs your buildings, even if you know its gonna do it will make it a challenge. UPDATE: i also found out it could be possible to make "templates" for each general that are picked at random and they can dictate what the AI will build/attack with. It will be too much work to make a complete template but that might just leave you wondering whats coming for you

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:53:49 AM
So this project isnt to challenge YOU in game play but to let otheres enjoy it and let you get better at tweaking......right? Your first post made it seem like you weren't challenged enough in solo play. Dont get me wrong I understand were your coming from but I have never seen an AI in which you couldnt learn how its reacts to you. Just takes a little time and then you know how to counter.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, May 8, 2004 11:49:03 AM
yes it takes a little time, but if he releases a new version with small changes every weak and you update it then it takes a long time to learn what the ai always does, and if it at one time masses on air and the second time thesame ai masses on tanks and defenses then you wont really know what to expect, you can't make counters for both air and tanks at thesame time if he masses one of em, you need to do spy sats many times, but if he masses on air but tries to trick you by making a small amount of tanks too then you might still fail in defending because you might think he's gonna use many tanks. and i just thought of this, we still need a guy who does the ai for the all stars mod i think.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, May 8, 2004 11:49:03 AM

yes it takes a little time, but if he releases a new version with small changes every weak and you update it then it takes a long time to learn what the ai always does, and if it at one time masses on air and the second time thesame ai masses on tanks and defenses then you wont really know what to expect, you can't make counters for both air and tanks at thesame time if he masses one of em, you need to do spy sats many times, but if he masses on air but tries to trick you by making a small amount of tanks too then you might still fail in defending because you might think he's gonna use many tanks. and i just thought of this, we still need a guy who does the ai for the all stars mod i think.

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 8, 2004 11:53:46 AM
Thats not very realastic to release a update every week or so. To me any AI will lose its fun it just takes a little time.

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 1:14:07 PM
well i also get the fun factor of watching my creation kicking the butt of EA's creation. I just done that. UPDATE: i played a 2v1 and my AI won out pretty nicely. I managed to get it to build a second barracks (first success in about 10 attempts) and now ill try to make it build more drop zones. When it was about to finish off the last enemy AI the map was dry, not a single supply pile left! and as it spent most of its money rebuilding fromt he nukes/A10s/FABs/PCUs/auroras/tomahawks and all the crap the enemies were throwing at it there was none left for attacking so it won by using particle cannons at the enemy with the occasional raid. the AIs in general cheat on hard, they get extra free cash, but in a stupid way, they get a huge lump sum at once, which they waste quickly. ill make them get a slow controlled flow of money to help them play better, and reduce the insane amounts of defenses they build by supply centers. Im also working on making the AI upgrade the MOAB properly.. ill tweak and update later

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 1:14:07 PM

well i also get the fun factor of watching my creation kicking the butt of EA's creation. I just done that. UPDATE: i played a 2v1 and my AI won out pretty nicely. I managed to get it to build a second barracks (first success in about 10 attempts) and now ill try to make it build more drop zones. When it was about to finish off the last enemy AI the map was dry, not a single supply pile left! and as it spent most of its money rebuilding fromt he nukes/A10s/FABs/PCUs/auroras/tomahawks and all the crap the enemies were throwing at it there was none left for attacking so it won by using particle cannons at the enemy with the occasional raid. the AIs in general cheat on hard, they get extra free cash, but in a stupid way, they get a huge lump sum at once, which they waste quickly. ill make them get a slow controlled flow of money to help them play better, and reduce the insane amounts of defenses they build by supply centers. Im also working on making the AI upgrade the MOAB properly.. ill tweak and update later

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 2:24:02 PM
right im gobsmacked... i had my first match against it. I never play against one AI as its just too easy but as i had to test it i did it while eating pizza and in max game speed. It was me as stealth gen. I built up my base, defenses, took derricks etc then humvees started killing my workers, then tomahawks came and as i finished my palace he had 2 particle cannons already. the quads got killed by the tomahawks and i couldnt shoot down his gatherers as his emps outranged my quads by far. then i sent buggies to deal with tomahawks... one tommie killed each buggie while the avengers made sure the tommies survived! i though it was bad then. but then the alphas came, in time with 2 particle cannons... i gave up... i wasnt playing 100% at all but i was sure impressed with it nevertheless... gimme hosting and ill post the current version... im off to try and beat it this time

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 8, 2004 2:24:02 PM

right im gobsmacked... i had my first match against it. I never play against one AI as its just too easy but as i had to test it i did it while eating pizza and in max game speed. It was me as stealth gen. I built up my base, defenses, took derricks etc then humvees started killing my workers, then tomahawks came and as i finished my palace he had 2 particle cannons already. the quads got killed by the tomahawks and i couldnt shoot down his gatherers as his emps outranged my quads by far. then i sent buggies to deal with tomahawks... one tommie killed each buggie while the avengers made sure the tommies survived! i though it was bad then. but then the alphas came, in time with 2 particle cannons... i gave up... i wasnt playing 100% at all but i was sure impressed with it nevertheless... gimme hosting and ill post the current version... im off to try and beat it this time

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, May 8, 2004 3:49:11 PM
keep giving updates. I'm very interested in your talent.

Posted by: swish - Saturday, May 8, 2004 4:35:31 PM
i'm very interested too. keep giving updates.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Saturday, May 8, 2004 4:45:08 PM
does this AI only work for SW gen?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, May 8, 2004 10:31:41 PM
When this AI mod comes out then ill download it for sure i love a challenge

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 2:53:15 AM
Right i beat the bugger, but its much harder now. it almost won a 3v1 as well (only lost because the enemy captured 8 derricks and they got none, which was decisive late in the game) The match was me as stealth V my SWG AI on final crusade. match started off pretty calmly, i built up my base quiclky made 2 supply centers, built stinger sites and tunnel networks by the bridges. I captured all oil derricks but the 2 near his base. Soldiers coming for the derricks and a few humvees were quickly dispatched by my stinger sites and quad cannons. I finish my palace. i hear "general, we uncovered an enemy particle cannon". four seconds later i hear it again, i think "s***!" i start sending raids to take out his resource gatherers and buggies for his patriots, but they get tomahawked and whenever i got through he sent 8 comanches and missile defenders and destroyed my raiding party. suddenly one alpha takes out my defenses on the north bridge, both stinger sites and network. Another comes and blows up the holes. as i send my army to fill the gap my workers are getting mowed down by a sentry drone that got through. I got mad and started building scud storms and lots of troops. i tried Jarmen Kell but he got spotted by spy drones/patriots and blown up by firebases quickly. with 8 buggies i managed to put a hole in his defenses, losing them all to an alpha a few seconds later, i then sent a lot of quads and garrisoned the town. I suffered heavy losses but managed to keep a foothold. then the ion cannons started to hit.. my barracks, arms dealers, supply stashes.. all gone. i rebuilt them with my good income from some 6 markets and massed on quads while using jarmen kell to pick off his tomahawks. i finally won when i scud stormed him 4 times in time with a massed quad/buggy attack, with rebel ambushes taking out his alphas on the ground (and getting mowed down by comanches). my base was wrecked by the end, with fuel air bombs, A10s and alphas making a mess. tough but fun game... ill make it harder now [grin] i am only working on the SW general, why? because each general has a completely independent AI, and each is made up of hundreds of dumb scripts that together make some intelligence (read book out of control by kevin kelly and youll know why im working with it) yes 12 different AIs where 90% of it is the same for each! the lazy developers rather make the same easy job 12 times then actually work hard on making a good adaptable modular AI... to make it worse the lazy buggers made it so the MAPPER has to stick AI waypoints so it can figure its own way around the map, thats how dumb the generals AI is. Good thing about having a crap AI is you can improve on it easily :) my plan is to finish a general at a time, getting quicker as i get better, as most of the stuff can be pasted to other generals with little change with same results. Im now working on base building, filling firebases, humvees and picking pathfinders as gen point. I am also making it build its base up faster still (no idle dozers) [size=7]want to help me guys?[/size] I NEED TO KNOW IF THE AI DOES THIS ON YOUR MACHINES AS WELL: start a game with 2+ AIs (china or USA), FFA. then immediately sell your command center and watch the AIs build. do they send a dozer to the building site and it stays at 0% for a while even though the dozer should be building as it is right next to the building site? i just need to know as i find it very odd, and i managed by accident to fix that a few times

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 2:53:15 AM

Right i beat the bugger, but its much harder now. it almost won a 3v1 as well (only lost because the enemy captured 8 derricks and they got none, which was decisive late in the game) The match was me as stealth V my SWG AI on final crusade. match started off pretty calmly, i built up my base quiclky made 2 supply centers, built stinger sites and tunnel networks by the bridges. I captured all oil derricks but the 2 near his base. Soldiers coming for the derricks and a few humvees were quickly dispatched by my stinger sites and quad cannons. I finish my palace. i hear "general, we uncovered an enemy particle cannon". four seconds later i hear it again, i think "s***!" i start sending raids to take out his resource gatherers and buggies for his patriots, but they get tomahawked and whenever i got through he sent 8 comanches and missile defenders and destroyed my raiding party. suddenly one alpha takes out my defenses on the north bridge, both stinger sites and network. Another comes and blows up the holes. as i send my army to fill the gap my workers are getting mowed down by a sentry drone that got through. I got mad and started building scud storms and lots of troops. i tried Jarmen Kell but he got spotted by spy drones/patriots and blown up by firebases quickly. with 8 buggies i managed to put a hole in his defenses, losing them all to an alpha a few seconds later, i then sent a lot of quads and garrisoned the town. I suffered heavy losses but managed to keep a foothold. then the ion cannons started to hit.. my barracks, arms dealers, supply stashes.. all gone. i rebuilt them with my good income from some 6 markets and massed on quads while using jarmen kell to pick off his tomahawks. i finally won when i scud stormed him 4 times in time with a massed quad/buggy attack, with rebel ambushes taking out his alphas on the ground (and getting mowed down by comanches). my base was wrecked by the end, with fuel air bombs, A10s and alphas making a mess. tough but fun game... ill make it harder now [grin] i am only working on the SW general, why? because each general has a completely independent AI, and each is made up of hundreds of dumb scripts that together make some intelligence (read book out of control by kevin kelly and youll know why im working with it) yes 12 different AIs where 90% of it is the same for each! the lazy developers rather make the same easy job 12 times then actually work hard on making a good adaptable modular AI... to make it worse the lazy buggers made it so the MAPPER has to stick AI waypoints so it can figure its own way around the map, thats how dumb the generals AI is. Good thing about having a crap AI is you can improve on it easily :) my plan is to finish a general at a time, getting quicker as i get better, as most of the stuff can be pasted to other generals with little change with same results. Im now working on base building, filling firebases, humvees and picking pathfinders as gen point. I am also making it build its base up faster still (no idle dozers) [size=7]want to help me guys?[/size] I NEED TO KNOW IF THE AI DOES THIS ON YOUR MACHINES AS WELL: start a game with 2+ AIs (china or USA), FFA. then immediately sell your command center and watch the AIs build. do they send a dozer to the building site and it stays at 0% for a while even though the dozer should be building as it is right next to the building site? i just need to know as i find it very odd, and i managed by accident to fix that a few times

Posted by: Flippy - Sunday, May 9, 2004 3:55:43 AM
I think is't okay to help... where can i download it?

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:14:33 AM
aha sorry i forgot to explain... any USA/China AI does it on my machine... try it with your default AIs and see if it they have this building bug... as for downloading i need hosting... with FTP access i could upload versions almost daily, as development is going very very fast (i only spend some 1-2 hours actually editing the AI, the rest was just playing) UPDATE: MANAGED TO GET IT TO BUILD MORE AIRFIELDS/ALPHAS...[grin] i had yet another 2 Ais vs my AI on a large 6 player map and it wasnt even funny... it held out no problems until it filled 2 airfields with alphas... not one single enemy unit managed to leave their bases after that... the alphas completely bombed the enemy... it took out all their derricks and captured the remaining ones... it had a 3:1 kill:death ratio in its units, it was a complete massacre. It now builds a lot more defenses where it needs and less where it doenst, uses more alphas more effectively, builds supply centers if it needs resources (it had 4 active ones at the same time on that 2v1) and cheats a lot less as it uses its money much more effectively and gathers more quickly... if you guys want to try it gimme hosting.. the file is 2 mb unzipped and probably a lot less compressed. by the by im only working on Hard AIs, as it has a separate set of scripts for each general and i rather do 12 sets than 36, plus no one with a bit of skill should play medium or easy

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:14:33 AM

aha sorry i forgot to explain... any USA/China AI does it on my machine... try it with your default AIs and see if it they have this building bug... as for downloading i need hosting... with FTP access i could upload versions almost daily, as development is going very very fast (i only spend some 1-2 hours actually editing the AI, the rest was just playing) UPDATE: MANAGED TO GET IT TO BUILD MORE AIRFIELDS/ALPHAS...[grin] i had yet another 2 Ais vs my AI on a large 6 player map and it wasnt even funny... it held out no problems until it filled 2 airfields with alphas... not one single enemy unit managed to leave their bases after that... the alphas completely bombed the enemy... it took out all their derricks and captured the remaining ones... it had a 3:1 kill:death ratio in its units, it was a complete massacre. It now builds a lot more defenses where it needs and less where it doenst, uses more alphas more effectively, builds supply centers if it needs resources (it had 4 active ones at the same time on that 2v1) and cheats a lot less as it uses its money much more effectively and gathers more quickly... if you guys want to try it gimme hosting.. the file is 2 mb unzipped and probably a lot less compressed. by the by im only working on Hard AIs, as it has a separate set of scripts for each general and i rather do 12 sets than 36, plus no one with a bit of skill should play medium or easy

Posted by: Flippy - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:25:19 AM
Yeah, but can u give it another name cause hards are still a little hard 4 me...

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:28:01 AM
lol, just build 2 bunkers/patriots/stinger sites in the path the enemy comes from, keeping a dozer/worker nearby to repair it... its simple as that to win in medium/easy... if you find hard hard, my AI will be waaaaayyy harder lol

Posted by: Flippy - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:36:27 AM
I don't play twilight flame, and i do beat them... can now get 3 with SW, and with demo 2(a online-accepted general)

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 6:41:12 AM
[quote=Flippy] I don't play twilight flame, and i do beat them... [/quote] the AI has only 3 attack routes, specified by the mapper on any given map... most of the time he comes form on direction and then closes on to your base so placing defenses there can kill them all... UPDATE: My AI just won against 3 allied AIs, and theres still a LOT of room for improvement... Keep tuned

Posted by: Flippy - Sunday, May 9, 2004 10:22:18 AM
Really? Didn't know that... Now I know, so now i'll beat them... So they're not that clever thatthey sneak in a Helix with a Super Lotus and loads of Attack Outposts?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Sunday, May 9, 2004 12:31:30 PM
Lion I'll talk to mic about you, and getting hosting.

Posted by: swish - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:43:56 PM
will you be improving other generals AI to? or are you just going to keep improving General Alexander until she can win a 1 on 6 game in half and hour? (or something)

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:45:37 PM
Cheers Blbpaws, it would sure be nice to let other see/critique my work [grin]. The mod will only ever take 2 MB, maybe 3 if i work on it for a year. Thats uncompressed. so should be too hard to host it... im working on the Alpha logic and the suicidal run rates are much lower... funnily enough i had 2 combinations which seem good: 1- tell them to guard combat zone + attack. I get a 3:1 kill/death ratio and all alphas are flying and bombing at all times, including suicidal runs and taking out incoming units 2- tell them to "hunt". they seem to stay flying around in base most of the time but when they attack they seem to do it really well and i got a 6:1 ratio... im trying to figure out a way to tell them to know when they are out of ammo so they dont try to attack while vulnerable or at least tell them to clear the combat zone before attacking... the SWG AI is quite hard and im getting tempted to work on china soon. i think ill pick the infantry gen, hell make dozens of hackers and insane amounts of troops. it will also use neutron mines hehe

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:45:37 PM

Cheers Blbpaws, it would sure be nice to let other see/critique my work [grin]. The mod will only ever take 2 MB, maybe 3 if i work on it for a year. Thats uncompressed. so should be too hard to host it... im working on the Alpha logic and the suicidal run rates are much lower... funnily enough i had 2 combinations which seem good: 1- tell them to guard combat zone + attack. I get a 3:1 kill/death ratio and all alphas are flying and bombing at all times, including suicidal runs and taking out incoming units 2- tell them to "hunt". they seem to stay flying around in base most of the time but when they attack they seem to do it really well and i got a 6:1 ratio... im trying to figure out a way to tell them to know when they are out of ammo so they dont try to attack while vulnerable or at least tell them to clear the combat zone before attacking... the SWG AI is quite hard and im getting tempted to work on china soon. i think ill pick the infantry gen, hell make dozens of hackers and insane amounts of troops. it will also use neutron mines hehe

Posted by: swish - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:50:25 PM
are the superweapon generals rangers smart enough to capture enemy structures, like an enemy barracks or something, instead fo just tech buildings?

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:50:35 PM
[quote=swish] will you be improving other generals AI to? or are you just going to keep improving General Alexander until she can win a 1 on 6 game in half and hour? (or something) [/quote] no i have a plan on what to improve, and as soon as thats done its done, until i plan something new. when i sort out the following ill be working on other gens: 1-fill firebases 2-fix build bug (IS ANYONE GONNA HELP ME WITH IT?) 3- no suicidal alphas 4-purchasing pathfinder gen ability 5- tweaking attack groups 6-capturing tch buildings fast again (it does it very late now as it builds reactor first) next gen should be inf gen about the rangers.. DAMN GOOD IDEA! it might work actually but dont get hopes up. I think have it thought out. if it works its gonna be the most annoying gen ever. its already is really bad when i play against it.. it keeps bombing me and using superweapons and tomahawks arrghh

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 9, 2004 1:50:35 PM

[quote=swish] will you be improving other generals AI to? or are you just going to keep improving General Alexander until she can win a 1 on 6 game in half and hour? (or something) [/quote] no i have a plan on what to improve, and as soon as thats done its done, until i plan something new. when i sort out the following ill be working on other gens: 1-fill firebases 2-fix build bug (IS ANYONE GONNA HELP ME WITH IT?) 3- no suicidal alphas 4-purchasing pathfinder gen ability 5- tweaking attack groups 6-capturing tch buildings fast again (it does it very late now as it builds reactor first) next gen should be inf gen about the rangers.. DAMN GOOD IDEA! it might work actually but dont get hopes up. I think have it thought out. if it works its gonna be the most annoying gen ever. its already is really bad when i play against it.. it keeps bombing me and using superweapons and tomahawks arrghh

Posted by: MicScoTho - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:36:35 PM
[quote]want to help me guys? I NEED TO KNOW IF THE AI DOES THIS ON YOUR MACHINES AS WELL: start a game with 2+ AIs (china or USA), FFA. then immediately sell your command center and watch the AIs build. do they send a dozer to the building site and it stays at 0% for a while even though the dozer should be building as it is right next to the building site? i just need to know as i find it very odd, and i managed by accident to fix that a few times [/quote]I checked this and it definitely happened for several USA buildings. I didn't notice anything unusual about China, but I might have missed something. Lion, I'll contact you about hosting via the email you signed up to the GW forums with.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Sunday, May 9, 2004 4:36:35 PM

[quote]want to help me guys? I NEED TO KNOW IF THE AI DOES THIS ON YOUR MACHINES AS WELL: start a game with 2+ AIs (china or USA), FFA. then immediately sell your command center and watch the AIs build. do they send a dozer to the building site and it stays at 0% for a while even though the dozer should be building as it is right next to the building site? i just need to know as i find it very odd, and i managed by accident to fix that a few times [/quote]I checked this and it definitely happened for several USA buildings. I didn't notice anything unusual about China, but I might have missed something. Lion, I'll contact you about hosting via the email you signed up to the GW forums with.

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 7:41:36 AM
thanks a lot MicScoTho, i can now try and work on the bug making the AI build even faster (and get oil derricks sooner as barracks get built faster) and nice one about hosting :D you guys should be able to download the first versions soon when it gets hosted.

Posted by: Imperial soldier - Monday, May 10, 2004 10:06:50 AM
Cool... Try making the AI even more effective in close quarters battle. I mean, on some maps where in the bases are pretty near each other. 'cuz with an AI such as that, rush tactics will be DEFINITELY USED against it and may be its downfall.

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 11:26:39 AM
UPDATE: made yet some more tweaks to the alpha logic and played against it. this time i was scared so i added a hard tank general as cannon fodder while i built my base up... i tried attacking but the alphas were insane my units couldnt leave the base!!! I made an army of over 150 infantry and they did not make halfway across the map! the vehicles i sent as fodder died too! giving up all hopes of attacking and seeing that my black lotus got spotted and killed after capturing jsut a few buildings, i went for all out turtling! my ally was defeated very quickly as well... I built up massive base defenses, including a bunker line with gats and speaker towers behind. Then something really surprised me: it sent some 12 tomahawks and LOTS of missile defenders with some avengers... i sent my infanty to take the tomahawks out but as they got half a screen away from the base alphas came and bombed them. I couldnt do anything! i sat there watching my defenses crumble to try and hit them when they came in. i manged to finally kill off the attackers. then i went on building nukes, besieged by those damn alphas attacking was not an option. it was hard to build because the gen powers and ion cannons sliced my income and power, and progaganda center a few times. i kept on nuking him and building more nukes, but he rebuilt his base so fast! took me 26 nuclear missiles to finish him off in total... im now off to make the alphas more protected and add sneaky stealth fighter attacks, along with allowing it to rebuild its command center, and maybe a couple more particle cannons. Im also playing with making the computer make secondary bases by supply piles! Keep Tuned!

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 11:26:39 AM

UPDATE: made yet some more tweaks to the alpha logic and played against it. this time i was scared so i added a hard tank general as cannon fodder while i built my base up... i tried attacking but the alphas were insane my units couldnt leave the base!!! I made an army of over 150 infantry and they did not make halfway across the map! the vehicles i sent as fodder died too! giving up all hopes of attacking and seeing that my black lotus got spotted and killed after capturing jsut a few buildings, i went for all out turtling! my ally was defeated very quickly as well... I built up massive base defenses, including a bunker line with gats and speaker towers behind. Then something really surprised me: it sent some 12 tomahawks and LOTS of missile defenders with some avengers... i sent my infanty to take the tomahawks out but as they got half a screen away from the base alphas came and bombed them. I couldnt do anything! i sat there watching my defenses crumble to try and hit them when they came in. i manged to finally kill off the attackers. then i went on building nukes, besieged by those damn alphas attacking was not an option. it was hard to build because the gen powers and ion cannons sliced my income and power, and progaganda center a few times. i kept on nuking him and building more nukes, but he rebuilt his base so fast! took me 26 nuclear missiles to finish him off in total... im now off to make the alphas more protected and add sneaky stealth fighter attacks, along with allowing it to rebuild its command center, and maybe a couple more particle cannons. Im also playing with making the computer make secondary bases by supply piles! Keep Tuned!

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 11:54:25 AM
[quote=Massacre] so it used 5-6 dozer? so in other words, uv made the ultimate cheating comp? great......now all we need is super tank gen.....10 dozer 20 war factory and fire out emperor after emperor!! but any way, sounds like a challenge...u got me interested too! :D [/quote] The AI cheats already, but they keep 50k in bank. mine simply gets that pension earlier and then uses its own devices (builds lots of supply DZs and supply centers). So it aint an extreme cheater AI, its just a smarter AI. It also has only 3 dozers by late game (it wont rebuild them if its more than 3) by the by im about to try something impressive. if it works the AI will be like 2x harder.. keep tuned

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 11:54:25 AM

[quote=Massacre] so it used 5-6 dozer? so in other words, uv made the ultimate cheating comp? great......now all we need is super tank gen.....10 dozer 20 war factory and fire out emperor after emperor!! but any way, sounds like a challenge...u got me interested too! :D [/quote] The AI cheats already, but they keep 50k in bank. mine simply gets that pension earlier and then uses its own devices (builds lots of supply DZs and supply centers). So it aint an extreme cheater AI, its just a smarter AI. It also has only 3 dozers by late game (it wont rebuild them if its more than 3) by the by im about to try something impressive. if it works the AI will be like 2x harder.. keep tuned

Posted by: Blbpaws - Monday, May 10, 2004 12:06:01 PM
Lion I'll talk to you about working on All-Stars via e-mail.

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 12:41:41 PM
Yep, as suspected it does work! My AI can now build a lot of stuff near supply piles (including SWs etc) just had a match where it built 9 pcus! cant get the buggers to get in the firebases though :(

Posted by: swish - Monday, May 10, 2004 12:43:32 PM
keep working at it. you'll get it. have you figured out how to get it to purchase pathfinders with his generals points?

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 1:25:45 PM
nope, no firebases and no pathfinders.. im starting to think this is to do with the INI files, as well as counters (timers). I need some counters so it builds its base better.. im still working at the auroras/pcus and a little bug where it builds a powerplant right in front of its own defenses, which gets destroyed very easily.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Monday, May 10, 2004 1:39:05 PM
Hey - the mod is now available for download at Generals World - http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/page.asp?page=zerohour:advancedaimod Head there to try out beta version 0.1!

Posted by: swish - Monday, May 10, 2004 1:45:14 PM
a powerplant right in front of defenses? thats dumb. and have you tried allying yourself with Super Alexander? it would be interesting.

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 2:31:55 PM
Its boring swish, it does all the butt kicking for me :D get it now and see if you like it!

Posted by: Lion - Monday, May 10, 2004 3:31:11 PM
last update for today: i seen my AI play against a demo gen and his rebels captured one of the PCUs, so it might be well possible to do it. i am very close to figuring out firebases also. i got units to stand outside of it and sometimes a soldier or two went in. post your comments on it people, its available now

Posted by: EoNwe - Monday, May 10, 2004 5:34:52 PM
I set it up in a 1vs1 game against a hard nuke gen on tournament lake and found some interesting things. 1. It Had major trouble with the "dozer sits at 0% bug." The supply depo for example didn't build for quite a while so it kept making more dozers to go stand by it. (I restarted it again) 2. It built plenty of particle cannons but still aimed them so it hit a maximum of one unit or one corner of target building. Better SW accuracy would be cool. 3. SUPER UBER L33T RIDICULOUS MISSLE DEFENDERS OF DOOM! [open_mouth] I witnessed some very scary rocket men... They had longer range then S&D tomahawks, and were in permanent laser lock mode. As in they were fully automatic, vulcan cannon style vs everything-- buildings, infantry, everything. I was impressed by its use of tomahawks and commanches though, along with base defenses. The Auroras blew up its own air field five times though... Of course, i've seen players do that too. I assume they were on guard. Those rocket men scared me out of playing it myself though (You have to see them to believe them...OMG).

Posted by: EoNwe - Monday, May 10, 2004 5:34:52 PM

I set it up in a 1vs1 game against a hard nuke gen on tournament lake and found some interesting things. 1. It Had major trouble with the "dozer sits at 0% bug." The supply depo for example didn't build for quite a while so it kept making more dozers to go stand by it. (I restarted it again) 2. It built plenty of particle cannons but still aimed them so it hit a maximum of one unit or one corner of target building. Better SW accuracy would be cool. 3. SUPER UBER L33T RIDICULOUS MISSLE DEFENDERS OF DOOM! [open_mouth] I witnessed some very scary rocket men... They had longer range then S&D tomahawks, and were in permanent laser lock mode. As in they were fully automatic, vulcan cannon style vs everything-- buildings, infantry, everything. I was impressed by its use of tomahawks and commanches though, along with base defenses. The Auroras blew up its own air field five times though... Of course, i've seen players do that too. I assume they were on guard. Those rocket men scared me out of playing it myself though (You have to see them to believe them...OMG).

Posted by: MicScoTho - Monday, May 10, 2004 5:45:29 PM
Sounds like a should have taken a screenshot =) Hey, actually... thats a pretty good idea...

Posted by: EoNwe - Monday, May 10, 2004 5:50:12 PM
I'll get a screeny if it happens again. [+1]

Posted by: EoNwe - Monday, May 10, 2004 6:30:32 PM
Ok I got a screen shot of these guys, but it wouldn't upload for me... Someone tell me how, and what restrictions are on size and format. Its a 92 kb JPEG.

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:57:14 AM
[quote=EoNwe] I set it up in a 1vs1 game against a hard nuke gen on tournament lake and found some interesting things. 1. It Had major trouble with the "dozer sits at 0% bug." The supply depo for example didn't build for quite a while so it kept making more dozers to go stand by it. (I restarted it again) 2. It built plenty of particle cannons but still aimed them so it hit a maximum of one unit or one corner of target building. Better SW accuracy would be cool. 3. SUPER UBER L33T RIDICULOUS MISSLE DEFENDERS OF DOOM! [open_mouth] I witnessed some very scary rocket men... They had longer range then S&D tomahawks, and were in permanent laser lock mode. As in they were fully automatic, vulcan cannon style vs everything-- buildings, infantry, everything. Those rocket men scared me out of playing it myself though (You have to see them to believe them...OMG). [/quote] 1- Yes im working on the 0% bug. It seems to happen to all USA armies. The extra dozers are for later game base building, where it builds a lot of things at same time. 2- it builds now MORE particle cannons. as for aiming i agree, its pretty dumb but i cant find where to set the priorities for targetting (it builds a lot more in v0.2 thats coming out in a few days. 3-hmmm lol they have very long range because of S&D.. they fire very fast because of avengers id imagine. ill play as us now and see if i can do it as well! (just imagine them doing it inside humvees!! mobile platform of doom!) I by no means hacked units so should be working normally but i found also another bug. sometimes (1% of time maybe) an alpha will drop 2 bombs! one on the way and another on its intended target! im working to fix it though hehe try playing it yourself the rocket men can be handled not too hardly with infantry/artillery.. what scares me are the alphas on large maps. my units cant leave their base without getting bombed half a screen away. i tried sending 42 tanks and they all died :( [grin]

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 7:57:14 AM

[quote=EoNwe] I set it up in a 1vs1 game against a hard nuke gen on tournament lake and found some interesting things. 1. It Had major trouble with the "dozer sits at 0% bug." The supply depo for example didn't build for quite a while so it kept making more dozers to go stand by it. (I restarted it again) 2. It built plenty of particle cannons but still aimed them so it hit a maximum of one unit or one corner of target building. Better SW accuracy would be cool. 3. SUPER UBER L33T RIDICULOUS MISSLE DEFENDERS OF DOOM! [open_mouth] I witnessed some very scary rocket men... They had longer range then S&D tomahawks, and were in permanent laser lock mode. As in they were fully automatic, vulcan cannon style vs everything-- buildings, infantry, everything. Those rocket men scared me out of playing it myself though (You have to see them to believe them...OMG). [/quote] 1- Yes im working on the 0% bug. It seems to happen to all USA armies. The extra dozers are for later game base building, where it builds a lot of things at same time. 2- it builds now MORE particle cannons. as for aiming i agree, its pretty dumb but i cant find where to set the priorities for targetting (it builds a lot more in v0.2 thats coming out in a few days. 3-hmmm lol they have very long range because of S&D.. they fire very fast because of avengers id imagine. ill play as us now and see if i can do it as well! (just imagine them doing it inside humvees!! mobile platform of doom!) I by no means hacked units so should be working normally but i found also another bug. sometimes (1% of time maybe) an alpha will drop 2 bombs! one on the way and another on its intended target! im working to fix it though hehe try playing it yourself the rocket men can be handled not too hardly with infantry/artillery.. what scares me are the alphas on large maps. my units cant leave their base without getting bombed half a screen away. i tried sending 42 tanks and they all died :( [grin]

Posted by: swish - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 9:36:21 AM

spread out the tanks but not to far. that way if it drops a bomb, the other anti-air tanks can take it down on its return trip when it is still in range. i tried it against her in gen challenge as inf general. i spread out my gattling guns. she bombs one. the other 2 kill the aurora when it turns around and starts heading back to base. before long she says: "you are pushing me over budget, general." in a annoyed manner. meaning she is spending more money on alphas then she is gaining. and gattling cannons build faster and ar cheaper. therefore i can do it again, and again.

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:42:22 AM

screenie of v0.2! AI in a 2v1 match, its 1v1 now as it killed off the other opponent and is finishing off the tank gen: [b]Image Insert:[/b] [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/Lion/Generals.JPG[/img] [size=2] 77.35 KB[/size] Notice that it took control over the map, took all tech buildings and built secondary bases with PCUs around them. the tech buildings were still standing because nothing of the enemy managed to get a screen away from their base without getting bombed. It built about 10 dropzones, had 7 oil derricks and built supply centers over 6 supply piles. thats why it has so much cash. both warfactories and barracks were pumping out units nonstop. Gats/quads in large numbers will cause some serious damage to the alphas. but this is a mod to improve the AI not to make it perfect. it will never be smart but it will play better

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 10:55:41 AM

[quote=swish] spread out the tanks but not to far. that way if it drops a bomb, the other anti-air tanks can take it down on its return trip when it is still in range. i tried it against her in gen challenge as inf general. i spread out my gattling guns. she bombs one. the other 2 kill the aurora when it turns around and starts heading back to base. before long she says: "you are pushing me over budget, general." in a annoyed manner. meaning she is spending more money on alphas then she is gaining. and gattling cannons build faster and ar cheaper. therefore i can do it again, and again. [/quote] another thing i forgot to add: it only works for skirmish lol! General challenges have their own separate AI

Posted by: MicScoTho - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:01:21 AM

[quote=EoNwe] Ok I got a screen shot of these guys, but it wouldn't upload for me... Someone tell me how, and what restrictions are on size and format. Its a 92 kb JPEG. [/quote]You should be able to get it to upload by pressing "Insert a File" on the Reply to Topic page. Why won't it let you upload? Are you getting an error message? Note that it could take a minute or two, depending on the file size, to upload a file.

Posted by: swish - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:05:37 AM
7 oil derricks?!?! on that map, which i believe is Twilight Flame, there are only 4 oil derricks. on your screenshot it said units lost 193. how could it lose 193 units of no enemy units "could get a screen away without getting bombed"?

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:08:11 AM

lol, go and count them... there are 4 groups of 2 derricks, one got destroyed, leaving 7. I played that map over 100 times id know it. look at the screenie. the derricks are situated near each corner of the dark area of the radar. two in each corner. if you look hard enough you can see the dots that represent them it lost 193 because: a) it builds auroras in late game so it got attacked before. b) enemy uses generals powers/planes on my swg's base c) some of its auroras get shot down (suicide bug remember??) d) IT ATTACKS THEREFORE IT LOSES UNITS gosh! really, what are you trying to achieve by trying to prove me wrong? If i was gonna lie i wouldnt publish the mod so id get proved wrong mate... go and play with it, and try attacking by late game... unless you sneak around the center, anything you send will get bombed by alphas pretty quick, provided the AI has alphas, it will use them... v0.2 has even better alpha logic

Posted by: swish - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:11:49 AM
your right.[blush] sorry. i was thinking that 4 derricks were 2. one on each side. you were right all along. maybe i should just shut up.

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 11:24:51 AM

[quote=swish] your right.[blush] sorry. i was thinking that 4 derricks were 2. one on each side. you were right all along. maybe i should just shut up. [/quote] hehe [grin] its ok, dont shut up, just do constructive critique instead so i can make my AI better UPDATE: v0.2 is almost done, from then on il start work on other generals, one at time. SWG will still be updated but not as quickly. Here are some improvements improvements over v0.1: -SUICIDE BUG FIXED! (it wont attack your base with alphas as much though) -The AI expands A LOT MORE. given time it will take over all supply piles in the map. -the AI wont give up capturing tech buildings as easily. -the AI will build secondary bases by supply piles, with defenses, PCUs, dropzones and power plants (9 pcus in total on that screenie) -Tweaked attack groups as to make them more effective (lots of work to be done still though) -the AI is now better with power management. it shouldnt run out of power when building up base (unless in very rare occasions)

Posted by: EoNwe - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:17:40 PM
Rocket men do have long range with S&D, but i dont think thye can outrange artillery. There were no avengers targeting for them. I still cant upload the pic, in any format; Oh well.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:41:57 PM
very nice work Lion

Posted by: MicScoTho - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 12:43:50 PM
[quote=EoNwe]I still cant upload the pic, in any format; Oh well. [/quote]Are you getting an error message?

Posted by: Lion - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:24:17 PM
Thanks for the support lol... i dont know if you know it already (rummyspeak), but im on of the best bug finders in the world (inf gen study + granger+fai overkill + some ill never tell you lot because they are just so amazingly powerful) [grin]... the forum says the limit is 100k but its in reality between 70-85kb.. jpegs will upload fine if under that... who here actually played it a few times?

Posted by: swish - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:25:21 PM
i haven't yet.

Posted by: EoNwe - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:21:42 PM
Im getting the box that says it could be size, format, file type, etc. Sometimes i get the white "server could not be found" kind of thing. It is 92kb so if Lion is right it might not work.

Posted by: MicScoTho - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:39:31 PM
Alright, the limit was actually at 80KB, now I've set it to 100. You should be able to upload the file now =)

Posted by: EoNwe - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 3:35:23 PM
Here they are, keep in mind they are at a range less then their maximum... The rocket trails disappeared too... [b]Image Insert:[/b] [img]http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/public/files/EoNwe/sshot039B.JPG[/img] [size=2] 94.54 KB[/size] They were killing those redguard with a minute before, at full auto. There is no avenger targeting for them.

Posted by: swish - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 4:38:49 PM
holy smokes! look at all those missiles. man. i pity the man who has to fight those foes. whether in aircraft, on foot, or inside a tank. they are a force to be reckoned with. the only thing i can think of that can take them out efectively, is a pathfinder, and Colonel Burton's knife.

Posted by: EoNwe - Tuesday, May 11, 2004 6:48:15 PM

Two of them took out an emp tank in exactly 2 seconds... I played vs the AI tonight and only won because I had pathfinders lol. Well, that and I sent rangers in front of my army to trick those nasty auroras. It wouldn't have been that hard except that it build sooooo many dozers. Despite its problems and "a bit extra money", its vastly better then the hard comps you can cripple with one nuke and an air attack. (Thats after you took out the other six in under fifteen minutes.)

Posted by: KingRaptor89 - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:52:52 AM

i fought against ur AI...n i kinda tricked it into bombin i'ts own airfield..den there were no more airfields..i sent my 70+++ technicals..but retreated when e commamnches started appearing...after that it had 4 particle cannons , n wif my new team of over 200 technicals n 60 odd quad cannons , i stormed their base...about 3/4 of em died by the time they had destroyed technicals , tomahawks , n those missile men..however , there were still several tomahawks in the base...i used my new Gen Point..e anthrax bomb , n finished em off...a vast improvement frm e HARD AI EA created.

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:14:01 AM
200?! OMG that is insane. Why didn't you build like tanks?

Posted by: KingRaptor89 - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:04:22 AM
coz i was stealth gen? when i was demo his alphas kept killin my workers...besides...they cost only around 100,000. tanks are too slow against e SW gen. that's my personal opinion.

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:19:53 AM
Glad you guys agree its much harder [grin]. V0.2 should come out tonight (if MicScoTho posts it tonight, im sending it him soon). it will expand insanely and will have more particle cannons, along with better base defenses. and then ill work on other gens. expect tank gens to send HUGE armies towards you! keep tuned [sunglasses]

Posted by: swish - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:10:08 AM
be sure we will.

Posted by: AstraL - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:10:57 AM
Whoa, been away for awhile but it looks like you have soem talent, have yet to download your AI mod but by the sound of it, it is very challenging, way to go!!

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:45:56 AM
GUYS v0.2 is done! well almost. in the final test run i thought of a way it might fill in those firebases! lets hope it works, but even it it doesnt im sending out v0.2 out tonight expect to hear about it soon!

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 11:38:15 AM
Yep v0.2 Beta is packed and shipped now its up to the GW guys to post it [grin] tell me if you think it is harder/better!

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:43:54 PM
How did you guys enhance the AI?

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:45:31 PM
By the By, i found out that this ultra rocket men of doom are in all USA AIs.. it seems its the most bugged side for AI and i have no idea why or how to fix these things.. they are not script related as far as i see! in any case v0.2 features many more of them lol they rock

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 12:49:10 PM
Ultra rocket men of doom? What are they?

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:16:09 PM

Apu: 1-i enhance the ai using worldbuilder 2-read the rest of the topic to know about them, they are a bug and have nothign to do with my ai, it was there already.. UPDATE: had a match against v0.2B on final crusade. I though I might as well be an adolf and pick infantry general as those emps wont do much harm... it was the best match i had against an AI. i started with small raid that kept on getting crushed as he build many reinforcements and managed to contain his expansion. then it ion cannoned a lot of my transports and started bombing my base with tomahawks , a-10s and gunships! my 3 war factories kept on pumping more and more infantry in those transports and i managed some breakthrough. It kept bombing and flahsbanging my troops but in the end i took out his power and it was all much easier! i lost more units that he did, and it was a hard match but great fun... i would have lost if he had pathfinders! as soon as i figure out how to make it pick the pathfinder general point it will! If i get too frustrated ill do a cheat trade. ill remove some of its cash hacks, making it cleaner than normal AIs but it will get a pathdfinder ability later on in the game (an extra gen point) so it is more or less fair... im starting to think this version will only get posted tomorrow lol... the files only 206k shame the forum wont accept it

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:20:40 PM
lol. Lion, e-mail it to MicScoTho.

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:24:46 PM
The faster the AI mod is up i can get killed by them faster. lol i would lose horribly (maybe).

Posted by: Lion - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:49:21 PM
[quote=Blbpaws] lol. Lion, e-mail it to MicScoTho. [/quote] i did lol

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:42:02 PM
late communication.... need to be fixed.. lol jk

Posted by: MicScoTho - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:10:14 PM
Version 0.2 Beta is now online! =) http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/page.asp?page=zerohour:advancedaimod

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 3:38:47 PM
ok. Excellent mic. thanks.

Posted by: apu - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 4:50:21 PM
Have you guys already tested it for flaws?

Posted by: MicScoTho - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 5:44:53 PM
Its in Beta, so there may be some bugs present. Let us know if you happen to find any. Lion would know better than I about any possible bugs though.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Wednesday, May 12, 2004 6:01:27 PM
Lion you sure are working quickly! :)

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:04:55 AM
Should we just post the bugs if we see them in this topic?

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 7:03:09 AM

yes apu bugs can be reported here but be aware that if its already posted then ill take it you didnt read the topic and ill do a hate vow on you or any person that does it [grin] you can also give advice an attack groups (what units to send). most of other advice will invariably be things impossible to change (like the attack routes the AI takes) telling me if you liked it or not will also help. Thanks for posting it Mic [grin]

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:08:10 AM
maybe i got a tip (still need to play it) you said taking out their power made it easier for you, could you make it that the comp would have 30% more powerplants then it needs, or more, that would be a good thing for laser gen atleast because it will be alot harder to take out power then.

Posted by: swish - Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:14:45 AM
once defenses are down have it send missile defenders/rangers to take out any supply gatherers. cut off the enemy supply lines.

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:20:58 AM

[quote=cdlord] could you make it that the comp would have 30% more powerplants then it needs, or more [/quote] it does already [grin] i had to destroy 4 power plants to get his power down, it currently builds from 150% to 120% power depending on how many it has (the more it has, less % as it can take more powerplants being destroyed) i would make it higher but i runs out of space. in v0.2 it can have up to 180% of the power it needs on the mini bases... the laser gen builds a smaller base so it will have a LOT more power plants for what it need as its so vital to him to have power

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:43:15 AM
[quote=swish] once defenses are down have it send missile defenders/rangers to take out any supply gatherers. cut off the enemy supply lines. [/quote] i can tell it to atack the enemy supplies. Im working on having it alpha bomb it. it cannot know what defenses are down or where

Posted by: swish - Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:59:36 AM
oh. bummer.

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:42:16 AM
You should make an attack group such as 8 emperor tanks, 5 gattiling cannons, and like 2 or three nuke cannons/inferno cannons.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:57:15 AM
i think for now this is only for SW gen

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:05:45 PM
Oh that stinks.. but in the future this combo will be good.

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:26:50 PM
Guys get playing and comment on it [grin] i made the mod for you guys, why not have a go, you have to move one file! its easy to install, easy to remove! any comments on the SWG attack groups or bugs??

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:44:59 PM
ill try it tomorrow, it´s too late now, got to go to bed. well i hope it´s gonna be big fun to play this mod (expecting to get his ass kicked by alpha auroras)

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:21:00 PM

Ive started work on the infantry general for v0.3 and im working on better garrisoning AI and also making attack teams that go to capture enemy buildings as greatly suggested by swish [grin] keep up the good work! Its great to work with china because it aint as buggy as US (rocket men of doom and 0% bug dont exist hahaah), well at least i havent found any bugs yet... im also working on a rushing AI for inf gen. it should build a barracks quite near to your base and pump out infantry... it will also build a lot more nukes! and the AI is so much better at aiming nukes than PCUs hahaha it will be fun making china AIs i also had some ideas involving recognizing the enemy and adapting attack groups towards each general eg AF gen will build a combat chinook full of pathfinders and fly-by the enemies army shooting all their army down or using MDs against a tank gen... im saving the best for last however.. expect the stealth gen to make some INSANELY HUGE CAMO bases and lots of black markets, which will pump out a LOT of units hahaha oo i cant wait till im finished lol btw if you guys have any nice screenies of v0.2 please send them to me at leon@yell.clara.co.uk so it can be posted on its page [grin]

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:15:34 PM
this is a bit unusual but can you make it so the computer responds to a certain action of an enemy's in a certain way?

Posted by: Blbpaws - Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:26:01 PM
[quote=apu] this is a bit unusual but can you make it so the computer responds to a certain action of an enemy's in a certain way? [/quote] I think that is what he means by the Combat Chinook example.

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:00:56 PM
no i mean like if an enemy uses mines on your base could you make it so that the computer goes and takes them off in a special way like change the # of workers go to deactivate the mines.

Posted by: Lion - Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:17:09 PM

[quote=apu] no i mean like if an enemy uses mines on your base could you make it so that the computer goes and takes them off in a special way like change the # of workers go to deactivate the mines. [/quote] The whole of the AI is responding to different things eg if a barracks is built make soldiers etc.. it just depends on what it can detect and what it can do. i can make it know that the enemy has mines but i cant make it send workers to disable them, which is a shame really...

Posted by: EoNwe - Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:08:48 PM

All I can say is that the infantry gen should NOT make lots of infantry. That is too predictable. Have it make attack outposts, ECM, etc. See if u can make it rush with them too. Now, if u can possibly get it to use your garrison trick, that will be badass. Btw Lion, I don't know if you have anything to do with this site, but if you don't you might find it ammusing. www.cncden.com Somehow it reminded me of you...

Posted by: MicScoTho - Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:21:27 PM
It appears we have two Lions in the community ;)

Posted by: apu - Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:45:09 PM
Hey lion, could you make the enemies use their heros in a better way like burton over mountains?

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Thursday, May 13, 2004 9:29:49 PM
if you give the infan gen different types of rushes, then give him the dual helix rush. thats gonna own everybody who isn´t expecting the comp to do that.

Posted by: apu - Friday, May 14, 2004 2:32:08 AM
I never expect a rushfrom a computer. Thet always capture buildings.

Posted by: GeneralGeorge - Friday, May 14, 2004 3:38:15 AM

Hey Lion, yesterday I downloaded and played your MOD for the first time. Really, it was very good. I played in a map for 4 players. I saw my enemy deviating from my defenses of base, I perceived that he controlled its economy better and used them yours Generals powers with more intelligence. They always attacked where I spent more money (airport with 4 bombers, for example). I appreciated so much. Good luck in the next version.

Posted by: Blbpaws - Friday, May 14, 2004 3:44:52 AM
[quote=MicScoTho] It appears we have two Lions in the community ;) [/quote] lol, yes. And no tigers! ;)

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 14, 2004 7:21:54 AM

lol 2 lions! thats very much homo (as in no diversity)... Like to see you guys are enjoying the mod! if you havent tried it yet GO AND GET IT! as for the infantry general: by more troops i meant more units, it will build actually many more vehicles than actual soldiers (why? read the inf gen study.. its cheaper and faster that way). Im working on an unload logic so if a transport takes too much damage it will unload its troops so they dont lose half their health! The inf gen will make use of artillery, planes, ECM tanks, lots of garrisoning (if i get it working properly) and maybe nuke cannons if i can make it pick that point (same prob as pathfinders for USA). It will use helixes but as i said its hard to make infantry load into transports, but ill try hard [grin] im playing with some rushing now.. it is extremely effective at first but its too easy to get used to it, so unless i can come up with some smart random rushing logic i cannot make it rush very effectively [disappointed] i am also working on GLA rebels capturing all sorts and some cool stuff on specific targetting (eg send aiplanes to destroy resources/defenses instead of anything in sight) lets see how it goes [grin]

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 14, 2004 7:25:08 AM
[quote=apu] Hey lion, could you make the enemies use their heros in a better way like burton over mountains? [/quote] ??? doesnt it already? i played jsut yesterday on mountain guns, a 4 way swg match and there were burtons all over those cliffs.. the computer uses predefined attack routes, but i might be able to make heroes take unusual ways...

Posted by: apu - Friday, May 14, 2004 10:26:17 AM
When i play they just send him to your base defends in the front.

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 14, 2004 11:16:20 AM
read post above...

Posted by: apu - Friday, May 14, 2004 1:14:37 PM
Hey lion, how long have you been in the "mod making business"?

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 14, 2004 1:39:10 PM
[quote=apu] Hey lion, how long have you been in the "mod making business"? [/quote] depends what u mean by a mod really... ive been hacking/modifying games since i started playing them when i was a kid.. serious modding i suppose only a couple of years ago (ra1.. was so easy then.. had some 10 mods for it)

Posted by: apu - Friday, May 14, 2004 2:28:34 PM
Wow how do you keep focused on it and not lose intrest?

Posted by: Lion - Friday, May 14, 2004 2:35:56 PM
[quote=apu] Wow how do you keep focused on it and not lose intrest? [/quote] i do lol thats why i made 10 mods i got bored of each!! i am hoping ill finish my AI mod [grin] nah as long as people are playing it and liking it ill keep on working at it... gimme reviews, opinions and comments!!! btw what general u guys want me to work on next???

Posted by: apu - Friday, May 14, 2004 4:50:11 PM
Work on the Air Force general!!!

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:20:06 AM

UPDATE on FAI: I am working on attack groups and they are much more effective, using more vehicles, transports ECM tanks and infernos... I also upgraded their urban fighting capabilities, it will garrison a lot more buildings. Base building-wise i made it build a few more dozers, go up the tech tree faster, build more nukes and twice as many hackers. Im trying to make infantry leave transports before they blow up as well and with the new income from hackers and quicker expansion it has a lot more money it know what to do with... even with 2 war factories pumping units out nonstop. ill add some more infantry back to the attack groups (it builds 4 barracks) and make it garrison a lot more buildings. last match i had it had 285 units by the end of the game...

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:35:31 AM
Lion you sure got your hands full man :-) When I get off work today I plan to give that AI of your a turn or two to see how it stacks up. From what Ive read should be a refreshing change of pace. Do you know of any bugs yet with your new AI so I will know what to expect or is everything running smooth to your knowledge?

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:40:02 AM

lol there are a few bugs indeed. these bugs however were already present, they exist in the original AIs as well. it will be a lot more noticeable because the AI will give you a longer and harder match... -USA missile defenders sometimes fire as if they had laser lock on nonstop and get 50% increased range -USA dozers go to build something but it remains at 0% for ages after the dozer arrived -CHINA infantry sometimes moves in slow motion (some 5 times slower, they freeze on the spot as well)

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:46:22 AM
Right Ive seen both USA problems before. Thats good then. You deserve a pat on the back then Lion. I havent seen much feedback on the mod execpt when cdlord wrote on it. (I guess that means a lot of people are getting beat and dont want to admit it :-) ) Well looking forward to many good things from you. BTW have you joined the AllStars team yet. Just wanting to know?

Posted by: swish - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:47:50 AM
have you figured out how to get it to pick Paradrop generals point?

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 8:56:30 AM

I wont be working on all stars until i finished with my AI mod i rather work on one project at a time so in a few months my AI will be done instead of two half done ais one for all stars and one for ZH... paradrop? it uses it already... if you mean pathfinders, im testing that now.. if the enemy has too much infantry it should use them now im also working on some REALLY fancy stuff for all generals: attacking while using superweapons/gen powers all i need is to add a new counter variable and a few scripts and i could get the computer to nuke you, carpet bomb you then emp whats left and follow up with an attack... not sure if its gonna work just yet. v0.3 SHOULD COME OUT TONIGHT if i manage to keep up the fast work im doing today

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 9:03:42 AM
Sweet. Just dont rush it and mess something up. Would suck to ruin that good name you have going for ya!

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:07:20 AM
i forgot to download it, but ill download o.3 then. and there aint alot that you could do for the all stars mod right now, after we finish some stuff the ai could be done for it, but i think it's too early for ai now.

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:37:49 AM

UPDATE: had a match of my 2 AIs, infantry versus superweapon! it was on tournament city, as i thought it would be fair as there were plenty of garrisonables. both sides went for tech buildings and supplies early. SWG sent a few humvees to take out Fai's capture guys. Later on with 3 war factories and a lot of hackers Fai kept the pressure it put on from the beggining, having troops by the SWG doorstep at all times. Alphas killed hundreds of soldiers and turned the city in the center into apile of rubble, but they got shot down a lot on the way back by the minigunners spread all over the place... Fai couldnt make a breakthrough because SWG had half a dozen pathfinders, tomahawks, EMP pats and comanches all over his base. It was a tough nut to crack. Fai started amassing a huge army instead of doing the smaller raids like before and it worked, the comanches got taken out. Frequent paradrops on the SWG's resource bases meant in the long run Fai had the economic advantage with over 20 hackers plus the internet center and oil derricks (most of which were blown up by alphas). When its nuke was ready Fai held it until it was time to attack. it launched it right on the defending comanches, tomahawks and pathfinders. a few seconds later it sent dozens of inferno cannons, attack outposts and troop crawlers. SWG put up a very fierce resistance, using tomahawks, flashbangs and two alphas. There was a large fight inside SWG's base. a Super lotus started capturing their superweapons and a second nuke hit their power plants. Fai won after two hours of battle. None of the SWGs general powers managed to hit as the garrisoned minigunners shot all FABs and A-10s while gunships managed to fire for only 5 seconds or so. the battle would have been bigger if both sides had enough space to build their base up. ill now have another battle in a map with more space.. V0.3 is almost done. i just need to tweak attack groups a bit more and sort out some SWG issues. I also send some screenies to MicScoTho so expect to see them soon in its main page Keep tuned [grin]

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 10:48:27 AM
Just to let you know my AI mod is now a CNCGW main feature and theres a lot of screenies up if you want to see it in action.. just go to the main page for it...

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 11:16:02 AM
Checked out those pics on main page Lion. I dont think I will treat your AI lightly now when I play :-) Good thing I looked at those screen shots before I played or I might have got schooled quick. Keep us informed man.

Posted by: apu - Saturday, May 15, 2004 11:42:00 AM
Hey lion do you know of anyone else who is doing something similar to you like a AI mod?

Posted by: MicScoTho - Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:03:13 PM
RVMECH over at [url=http://www.cncden.com/]CNCDEN[/url] had an "Almost Human AI" mod for Generals, but I am not aware of another one for Zero Hour

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:13:24 PM

right ive tried to watch a 2v2 match, my AIs vs EA's AIs but its running so darned slow (too many units) its leading me to wonder why the slowdown... if it is caused by the scripts ran by the AI players, i might be able to improve skirmish performance all over the board by a lot... most scripts are checked every frame (20-30 frames per sec) but for most of them ti wouldnt make much of a difference checking for them every second, but it would consume a fraction of the system resources, which would allow for big AI matches with little or no slowdown! i need to see if it is indeed AI related or its just to do with the number of units in the game... ill do a final test run and ill release 0.3

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:32:30 PM
D* you just keep on going Lion. Like the d* energizer bunney or something. That would really rock if you could improve the speed.

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:38:32 PM

[quote=rlgl81] D*** you just keep on going Lion. Like the d*** energizer bunney or something. That would really rock if you could improve the speed. [/quote] Thanks i guess [grin] i need to know if its due to the number of units or the AI scripts, or both... if you guys want to help me, fire ZH up and put 7 AIs, FFA and see when it lags, if it gets progressively worse or if it happens when attacking and so on so i can find out whats causing the slowdown and hopefully fix it

Posted by: rlgl81 - Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:42:39 PM
Well I can tell you when I play against 7 AI that is slow from the begging of the game. I have 2.6Ghz 512 mem and a good graphic card so I know its not my PC.

Posted by: Firion Corodix - Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:37:38 PM
rlgl81, is it slow against the normal AI then? or against the AI that lion changed? i know the normal AI starts to lag very soon, i´m wondering if lions AI does that too, well tomorrow ill find out.

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 1:42:56 PM

yes it does :D i think i found it out guys!! indeed its the scripts i played against 1 AI he had 200 units (my new infantry AI) and it didnt lag i played with 7 ais within seconds it was laggy... this is due the AI is checking scripts i think i could reduce the lag by some 80% (youll get a fifth of it) OR EVEN MORE it would take ages so ill do it in steps from v0.4 onwards... UPDATE: v0.3 IS READY!!!!! i just sent it to MicScoTho! enjoy :D

Posted by: MicScoTho - Saturday, May 15, 2004 2:00:40 PM
You forgot to attach it Lion... [smile]

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 2:21:58 PM
i did, but my e-mail is buggy and wont send it if i spend too much time typing the message... i sent it on a separate e-mail with no text but it must have been filtered out... ill send it again

Posted by: MicScoTho - Saturday, May 15, 2004 2:54:03 PM
I got it this time... adding it now. Thanks

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 3:17:52 PM
Chuffed... received my first praise mail hehe [grin] so far everyone is liking the mod and the fun level is very high as im learning lots still so expect a fast development. heck i done 90% of the infantry general just today! of course i dont often get a whole free saturday to work on it straight on

Posted by: Lion - Saturday, May 15, 2004 3:37:08 PM
v0.3B is out! go and get it now!!

Posted by: apu - Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:24:42 PM
Are you foinf mods for all the generals lion?

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:03:23 AM

[quote=apu] Are you foinf mods for all the generals lion? [/quote] apu, no offense meant at all but i somehow get the impression you dont read things. its been stated four times in this topic, once in the news section, another in my AI page and another one now. you even answered a question on what general you want next! yes i will expand the mod to fit all generals, on v0.3 it even has the infantry general already! MicScoTho even added a nice installer for it now, so its less of a hassle to play with it now [grin]

Posted by: antaran - Sunday, May 16, 2004 2:54:12 AM

To Lion: As you spoke about cheating I checked out those EA AI scripts and I found out that they are really cheating... And it is not only because of that bug at the beginning of game, they use several scripts like this one, purposely... *** IF *** Counter '_ESCALATION' IS Greater Than or Equal To 75 *** THEN *** Player '' gets $ 20000 I am terribly disappointed, because I thought while playing against AI that if I could destroy it's supply lines it will loose almost immediately... Then I saw your scripts and I am not entirely sure what you changed there, if am I wrong sorry, but I guess you add there this script which is also cheat... *** IF *** 5000 is Greater Than or Equal To the number of credits possessed by Player '' *** THEN *** Player '' gets $ 1000 I guess this is wrong way how to do AI, because it underestimates importance of supply stashes and hackers and other buildings generating cash... I thing when AI is out of money, it should sell buildings like anyone else, but not cheat... I is very easy to build multiple superweapons or countless numbers of aurora bombers if you have unlimited resources...

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 16, 2004 3:06:53 AM

of course the AI cheats! I wish it didnt need to but it does... it has cheated since the original generals! it cheats because it is too dumb to know that it has to save 2000 for a supply depot or to expand or to do anything like that! the computer has also set basebuilding spaces that cannot be changed unless i mod every single map in ZH, whcih means it cannot ever expand as well as human and buld say 50 black markets! the AI on hard cheats and my AI is never different, and im even reducing the amount it cheats from the first version, trading it for money it gets from actual supply centers and others like hackers and drop zones... that line i added is simply to make sure it can build superweapons and survive later in the game. it does not prevent it from having below 5000 at all but is a smarter income support giving it money only if it needs it... it also makes up for it having to pay for all the chinooks that come with supply centers it builds(now that it builds a lot more of them)... as far as i can see there is no command for selling one building.. it can only sell all of it as in surrendering. facing all such aspects the AI is at a tremendous disdvantage against humans, it is dumb, it cannot learn, it cannot do half the stuff we do, it is ridden by bugs EA never stomped. Now if you can make a very hard AI that doesnt cheat at all, feel free.. ill even create you a website for it... If you think im doing it the wrong way, please feel free to do it yourself and show the community how you can make a clever AI that doesnt need cheats. bear in mind that you can make it a lot smarter by creating a neural network of scripts but that would take years to finish and would eat at least some thirty times the computing power EA's AI does so maybe in year 2015 we will be able to have a 7 AI game that will play at an acceptable speed.. but hey im looking forward to you publishing your non cheating AI. its great to have someone that wont bother spending many months making a super AI as smart as humans. as i improve the AIs more and more it will cheat less and less but i dont think ill ever make it so it doesnt cheat as it will be just too easy. Blame EA not me...

Posted by: EoNwe - Sunday, May 16, 2004 4:49:32 AM
Lion, do you know what it is about the WC3 and even Starcraft AI that makes them learn over time? lol my comp is almost FS harassing me now. It seems to even learn from replays, but maybe I'm wrong..

Posted by: Lion - Sunday, May 16, 2004 5:11:33 AM
[quote=EoNwe] Lion, do you know what it is about the WC3 and even Starcraft AI that makes them learn over time? lol my comp is almost FS harassing me now. It seems to even learn from replays, but maybe I'm wrong.. [/quote] im not sure.. blizard makes the highest quality games ive ever seen, so i wouldnt be surprised.. their AI is really good but i never seen how it works on the inside...

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