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OmegaBolt
56.75% (Neutral)
Private Topic Starter

14 years ago

So far the mod has been really great, need to find some people to play online with though for proper balancing. Just a few niggles really and some polishing needed. Visually the mod is mostly brilliant.

1. The cameos could have been remade easily. With the 3D models you should have been able to whip up some new ones pretty quickly and at least make them the correct size to fill the sidebar.

2. Ore looks a little too dispersed IMO. I'm also not particularly sure what that pile of stuff is in the middle... Ore drill might have been better.

Note it also spawns in water on some maps however I assume that is due to the way it is coded to replace existing ore nodes without editing individual maps.

3. Lack of technicians is a disappointment!😉

4. The Artillery shell should be much more noticeable, have a longer range (it currently can't even outrange the Gun Turret) and be less accurate IMO, currently it feels a little odd and the ol' RA3 "Nuke" explosion isn't very suitable, although I bet explosions are on your list of things to work on.

5. Rockets and tank weapons seem far too effective against infantry. For example the Light/Medium/Heavy Tanks can easily defend against infantry, killing them in a few shots. Rocket troops are also far too effective against inf which should be their big weakness.

6. Initial Con Yard NEEDS to be redeployable IMO. It's way too limiting and troublesome having to create a new MCV just to move to another ore field. It also means that unless you think ahead and expand early you're probably gonna be too out of cash to expand later.

7. The camera shake from nuke explosions is cool although a little nauseating, could be toned down I guess.

8. Chrono Tanks can teleport into fogged and even shrouded areas, this shouldn't be allowed as it makes it far too powerful, being able to immediately teleport into undiscovered enemy positions.

9. Spy Sat should show a super weapon counter.

10. Veterancy should be harder to achieve, atm I can tear down buildings and get units elite after just a few kills. Makes units far too powerful too easily IMO.

I look forward to playing a lot more of it, it's a great mod.

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natino
55.25% (Neutral)
Private

14 years ago

I agree with every point! cnc labs should add a like button

incia
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

14 years ago

I agree on everything but 2 points.

MCV should definately NOT be redeployable, one of the biggest best things I found about this mod, no fking turret pushing anymore, fixed. And expanding should be hard, and this actually gives you a big point to actually build that new MCV, usually never see anyone actually build that unit. Also keep in mind it only costs 2500 instead of the normal 5000. And also keep in mind that your opponent have to do the exact same thing. If you are having trouble expanding so has he. And if he escorts his MCV to an expansion site, well then he has the upper hand, good for him.

Point two, please don't nerf rocket soldiers to be useless, currently I love them the most, and they are also the ONLY AA unit for Soviet crying out loud, they shouldn't be countered by 1 minigunner alone. Now they actually can defend themselves and that's cool. They also cost 300 which is very expensive in this type of game with hard expansions. In RA1 I never ever built those Rocket soldiers because they died to 1 hit from everything and needed 10 rockets to kill an infantry.

Also I see that you guys really made the game similar to the original, and the usual OP units are still there. For instance all those expansion units, Chronotank, Missile sub, they are hilariously OP, but so they were in RA1 too. 3 Chrono tanks can kill a base in 5-7 seconds, they kill air units, infantries in one volley and also kill buildings (tesla coils) in 2 or 3 volleys. How can one counter these when they just teleport into your base? Spam tesla coils everywhere? Naah, there should be another counter.

And some balancing things to consider that actually also happened in the expansion pack.

Give APC also to Soviet (they have no anti-inf tank, building a 1500 Apache is a bit expensive for anti-inf)
Give Tanya also to Soviet (they had no Commando unit)

Give Dog also to Allied (or make Ranger able to detect stealth)
Make Spy stealth

OmegaBolt
56.75% (Neutral)
Private Topic Starter

14 years ago

MCV should definately NOT be redeployable, one of the biggest best things I found about this mod, no fking turret pushing anymore, fixed. And expanding should be hard, and this actually gives you a big point to actually build that new MCV, usually never see anyone actually build that unit. Also keep in mind it only costs 2500 instead of the normal 5000. And also keep in mind that your opponent have to do the exact same thing. If you are having trouble expanding so has he. And if he escorts his MCV to an expansion site, well then he has the upper hand, good for him.

incia wrote:

Well to me the MCV seems far too big and important to produce more (quite a few to cover multiple ore fields) in order to expand. An expansion unit would be a better solution if the MCV isn't made redeployable but I'm not sure how much they want to change from the original.

Also I'm not a fan of build orders or forcing tactics out of players. If the MCV isn't redeployable then you're forcing players to build a second or third MCV to expand before cash runs out. If one player does it before the other then the player who didnt expand is left without credits and very little ability to retaliate. Players should always be given options IMO (which is why support powers were a damn good addition). At least if their original Con Yard was movable they'd stand a chance.

Point two, please don't nerf rocket soldiers to be useless, currently I love them the most, and they are also the ONLY AA unit for Soviet crying out loud, they shouldn't be countered by 1 minigunner alone.

incia wrote:

If they're important units then they should be protected, 1 minigunner should easily be able to take out a lone Rocket dude, just give them some infantry escort. Remember Mammoth Tanks can target air units and possibly even Hinds and Migs too (haven't tried but they'd be good options IMO).

Give APC also to Soviet (they have no anti-inf tank, building a 1500 Apache is a bit expensive for anti-inf)

incia wrote:

Use the Tesla Tank, that's awesome against infantry albeit costing 1500 as well. Note that the Soviets do get the most effective anti-infantry infantry units with the Grenadier, Flamethrower and Shock Trooper. IMO the APC should stay exclusive to the Allies as mobility is really one of their strong points.

incia
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

14 years ago

Hey, I just checked the old Red Alert 1 manuals, I was wrong about the APC.

It was in Tiberian Dawn multiplayer where they gave Nod the APC too 🙂 and also gave them the Chinook.
Seems in Red Alert it's still APC = Allied, and Chinook = Soviet.

And Soviet have flame towers for early anti-air, but I just feel crippled without the 'ol Sickle and Bullfrog.

OmegaBolt
56.75% (Neutral)
Private Topic Starter

14 years ago

Flame towers as anti-air?😛

Couple more points:

1. IMO helicopters should constantly hover, possibly without needing to reload or at the very least you shouldn't have to build one Helipad per chopper. They both seem really quite slow moving as well.

2. Light Tanks should be a little quicker to make them more useful.

3. Ore Miners wait until full before unloading. This means once ore fields run out they just sit there useless, would be better if they returned to the Refinery when there is no nearby ore.

Edited by user 14 years ago | Reason: Not specified

zocom7
62% (Friendly)
Private

14 years ago

Initial Con Yard NEEDS to be redeployable IMO. It's way too limiting and troublesome having to create a new MCV just to move to another ore field. It also means that unless you think ahead and expand early you're probably gonna be too out of cash to expand later.

OmegaBolt wrote:

I support that since it saves money from making another MCV. There are some maps that have either less ore or ore collected very far from the base at the beginning of a skirmish or MP game.

Belmont
51.5% (Neutral)
Private

14 years ago

IIRC the MCV wasn't redeployable on the original RA1, so why should it be on a faithful remake like this mod?

Agreed, the Allied Spy Sat definitely needs a counter of some kind.

incia
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

14 years ago

errhm, anti-inf I meant...

ltrobertcole
52.25% (Neutral)
Private

14 years ago

#10

6. Initial Con Yard NEEDS to be redeployable IMO. It's way too limiting and troublesome having to create a new MCV just to move to another ore field. It also means that unless you think ahead and expand early you're probably gonna be too out of cash to expand later.

OmegaBolt wrote:

No they should not. This game is aimed at reliving what was once a great title. In the original Red Alert you could not redeploy a MCV. You had to either guard your ore miners when gathering at far away places or simply just build a new one even though they are costly.

ltrobertcole
52.25% (Neutral)
Private

14 years ago

#11

1. IMO helicopters should constantly hover, possibly without needing to reload or at the very least you shouldn't have to build one Helipad per chopper. They both seem really quite slow moving as well.

OmegaBolt wrote:

Going off what I said previously this mod is aimed at reliving a once great title. Helicopters did not hover in RA95 once they unloaded their payload on a enemy they flew back to their helipad. Also having helicopters not reload just doesn't make any sense it would make them way to much over powered never having to return to their helipad. Why shouldn't you have to build one helipad per chopper? You cant fit one than one on a helipad it just wouldn't work. If you don't want to spend more money on a whole other helipad you could just build some more helicopters and have them land on the ground. When they are all out of ammo just select them all and tell them to land on the pad. If it works just like RA95 did then they should all take turns landing and rearming.

OmegaBolt
56.75% (Neutral)
Private Topic Starter

14 years ago

#12

Helicopters did not hover in RA95 once they unloaded their payload on a enemy they flew back to their helipad.

ltrobertcole wrote:

I know but for the sake of convenience and usefulness it'd be nice to have them (Hinds at least) with infinite ammo. Longbows could be pretty overpowered if they didn't have to reload though... Also note I made a mistake, choppers to hover at the moment they just have limited ammo, which is probably the best compromise anyway.

Why shouldn't you have to build one helipad per chopper? You cant fit one than one on a helipad it just wouldn't work. If you don't want to spend more money on a whole other helipad you could just build some more helicopters and have them land on the ground. When they are all out of ammo just select them all and tell them to land on the pad. If it works just like RA95 did then they should all take turns landing and rearming.

ltrobertcole wrote:

Well no, it doesn't work like RA1. In TRA the Helipad only allows construction of one chopper and as far as I can tell you have to build more pads to produce more choppers. Instead you should be able to have one pad and any new choppers fly in from off of the map (if possible) or simply spawn next to the Helipad.

As much as I love RA1 I do think times have changed and even "classic" RTS' should be improved as much as possible to streamline gameplay and make it as fun as can be. This is the chance to fix any flaws in RA1 gameplay and game mechanics.

cgf123`
95.75% (Exalted)
Captain

14 years ago

#13

firstly, i havent played this mod yet (intending to very soon once i get hold of ra3), but a few things id like to chime in on

1) i do think MCV's should be redeployable. RA1 had an option to allow this, so its fine if this mod has it by default imo.
Incia you need to stop generalising... this game is still vastly different from RA3 so you cant assume this will result in turret pushes dominating.

CnC3/KW had redeployable MCV's and turret pushes there, whilst being a viable option (with 3 MCVs usually), were not a dominant strategy like in RA3. My point here is it simply boils down to how the game is balanced, and you cant jump to conclusions based on the fundamental design.

Even if turret pushes dominate theres a billion ways to solve it - from increasing turret build times, to having weaker MCVs (cnc3), smaller build radius etc

2) i think giving helicopters unlimited ammo would totally go against the original design. However im not opposed to them having tons of ammo instead.... as this would also set them apart from the Yak (which would be higher damage output in a shorter time frame).
But i think itd be good if they would just hover instead of land at the target location (if they dont already).

as for the 1 chopper per pad restriction, i think that can simply be balanced around by making helipads cheaper but having to buy choppers manually for each of them.

3) for soviet anti-air i think their rocketmen especially effective vs aircraft since soviets lack any anti-air vehicle.
Also MIGs should be able to target air (and be amazing at it), if they dont already (they could in RA1 with a bug) 🙂

Edited by user 14 years ago | Reason: Not specified

'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!

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