My first map, looking for constructive criticism · C&C Labs Forums

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Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

OK so I kinda learned the basics of the world builder and well, I made a map. Actually I made 4 maps, but the 1st one was too large for the boundary, which I discovered after it was almost finished. The 2nd one was, well, I'm still working on it. The 3rd one was in beta phase on my friend's computer, but he deleted it. The 4th one I made in under an hour. It's pretty small since I'm not that familiar with what sizes the maps should be when I make them.

The name for the map kinda sucks, but who cares, it's better than "Test5". I'd like some people to test it out and tell me what I could do to improve my possible future maps, apart from the size. What I know is that this map is small, it only has 1 entrance to each base, it's quite narrow and well, there's not that many places to go and nothing to fight over. There is also no AI on the map. I actually tried adding some, but the AI killed itself in the beginning of the game. I think the AI stuff is still in there though.

Any suggestions, tips and other things are greatly appreciated. I'll learn about the scripts thing later. My target now is to make bigger maps, way bigger.

I think it's ready

http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com//public/files/Misacorp/Blizzard%20Valley.zip

Edited by user 19 years ago | Reason: Not specified

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Sniperelite8243
93.5% (Exalted)
Captain

19 years ago

for onee of your first maps. its pretty darn good.
but if you want to make it a skirmish map
-make building area a bit bigger, for computer needs not human
-add all the perimiters. your lacking some.
each team needs. for example ill do player one.
-innerperimiter1
-outerperimiter1
-combat zone(you only need one it counts for all the players)
make combat zone bigger. its a little bit small.
-add skirmish players.

good luck!

fleetatks
100% (Exalted)
Colonel

19 years ago

First I'd like to say that it looks like a nice idea for a map.

The first problem is that it seems small. you can place buildings like command centers power plants ect. to see if players can fit everything they need and more.

Instead of using supply piles use a supply dock, it makes the map look more organized and let the players get close to the supplies.

I saw a big ramp leading onto the mountain when i pressed Ctrl+I, If it is either an accident or on purpose its bad, It it was accident then paint impassible area over it. If it was on purpose then you need to make it stand out more by changing the texture, and have something on the top to give the player a reason to go up there.

The map really only has one attack route, so when you make the map wider also add an attack route that's through the mountains or something.

Edit: Inoticed you accidently put "FalkPath1" and you make the waypoint for the players have a path. Delete the unused waypoints and rename the flank path to "Flank1"

Edited by user 19 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Email me if you ever need help (edited signature November 6th, 2014)

Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

Okay, I'll do those, sometime 🙂 Thanks for the tips. I'm still quite unaware of the whole AI settings thing, but I guess I'll learn by experimenting.

About those supply piles, I wanted to give the map a "deserted" look, so I didn't put any buildings in it and well, supply piles still do the same thing as docks.

Edited by user 19 years ago | Reason: Not specified

fleetatks
100% (Exalted)
Colonel

19 years ago

If you want to use them, put them all very close together so the player has more space to build the supply gathering factory.

Email me if you ever need help (edited signature November 6th, 2014)

krit
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

Response from opening map in Worldbuilder:
> Base area is rather small, could be enlarged, this goes for the entire map
> "OuterPerimeters" missing for both players
> "CombatZone" should cover most of the map
> 2 waypoints are wrongly labelled
> "Skirmish Players" are missing
> Vary the ground textures abit, there's only 2 textures used in total on your entire map
> Clean the cliffs abit with the impassable terrain brush, not that its a big problem but its passability is currently a mess
> You can try adding some ambient sound effects like wind sounds to the map, it could liven it up a little
> You can clump out some trees together so it doesn't look like they're just all over the place

That's about it, not bad for a first try.

incia
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

> You can try adding some ambient sound effects like wind sounds to the map, it could liven it up a little

Krit wrote:

About those sound effects, how does they actually work?
I remember trying to add some without any great success.

krit
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

All it is is selecting the one you want from the object selection list: Civilian > Audio. The location where you place them on will be where the sound originated so you won't hear the sound effect if you're not looking at the area you placed them on ingame, you won't hear them, and they'll get louder if you're closer to them such as hearing flowing water when you go near a river. So you can place things like winds on the mountains and birds chirping in dense forests.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW, since the map is Blizzard Valley, you might want to add some falling snow to it as well

Edited by user 19 years ago | Reason: Not specified

Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

Okay how do I add snow? 2nd thing, what does the impassable area brush look like? I believe I could find it but I can't bother opening up the Worldbuilder now. Also, what's a good size for a 1 vs 1 Skirmis map? I was thinking maybe 15000 x 500 for a long and narrow one like this.

MicScoTho
78.75% (Friendly)
Administrator

19 years ago

#10

Fleetatk's tutorial here (scroll down a bit) indicates that you can paint terrain as impassible by setting the appropriate option in the Terrain Material Options dialog.

You'll want to note, if you haven't already, that it's "InnerPerimeter1", etc., not "InnerPerimiter1".

Also, if anyone would like to write up a short tutorial on how to add snow to a map, I'd gladly add it to our World Builder section. I don't know how to add snow or weather effects myself.

CG Apollos
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

#11

It's very simple to do. I don't mind writing a small tutorial on how to add it.

fleetatks
100% (Exalted)
Colonel

19 years ago

#12

It's very simple to do. I don't mind writing a small tutorial on how to add it.

AuroraAlphaHL2 wrote:

All you need is these files that I have and you can have snow or lightning/rain I'll submit them to the download section if the download manager is interested.

Email me if you ever need help (edited signature November 6th, 2014)

krit
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

#13

Just create a file named "map.ini" in the directory where you map is and place this in it:

Weather
 SnowEnabled = yes ; enable/disable snow on the map.
 SnowTexture = ExSnowFlake1.tga ;texture used for each snow particle.
 SnowBoxDimensions = 100 ; width/height of box around camera containing snow.
 SnowBoxDensity = 1 ; amount of snow particles per world-unit. Raise to increase particle count.
 SnowFrequencyScaleX = 0.0533 ;speed of side-to-side wave movement.
 SnowFrequencyScaleY = 0.0275 ;speed of side-to-side wave movement. 
 SnowAmplitude = 4.0 ;amount of side-to-side movement. 
 SnowVelocity = 3.0 ;speed at which snow falls
 SnowPointSize = .16 ;scale the size of snow particles.
 SnowMaxPointSize = 10.0 ; maximum pixel size of point sprite particles (min-spec requires <= 64).
 SnowMinPointSize = 0.0 ; minimum pixel size of point sprite particles.

 ;Some video cards can't do hardware accelerated particles.  Set this
 ;setting to "no" in order see what emulation will look like.  Use the
 ;SnowQuadSize setting to make it look similar to PointSprite version.

 SnowPointSprites = yes ;set to "no" for point-sprite emulation.
 SnowQuadSize = 0.5 ;scale the size of snow particles when using point-sprite emulation.
End

This was copied off the map.ini for map "Bitter Winter". EA left some good notes in these as you can see so you can play around with it.

Any if people were wondering how rain is done, here is the extract from "Eastern Everglade"'s map.ini

Weather
  SnowEnabled = yes             ;enable/disable snow on the map.
  SnowTexture = EXRainDrop.tga  ;texture used for each snow particle.
  
  SnowBoxDimensions = 100       ;width/height of box around camera containing snow.
  SnowBoxDensity = 1            ;amount of snow particles per world-unit. Raise to increase particle count.
 
  SnowFrequencyScaleX = 1      ;speed of side-to-side wave movement.
  SnowFrequencyScaleY = 1      ;speed of side-to-side wave movement. 
 
  SnowAmplitude = .1            ;amount of side-to-side movement. 
  SnowVelocity = 25.0           ;speed at which snow falls
  SnowPointSize = .3            ;scale the size of snow particles.
 
  ;Some video cards can't do hardware accelerated particles. Set this
  ;setting to "no" in order see what emulation will look like. Use the
  ;SnowQuadSize setting to make it look similar to PointSprite version.;;;

  SnowPointSprites = yes ;set to "no" for point-sprite emulation.
  SnowQuadSize = .1 ;scale the size of snow particles when using point-sprite emulation.
End

All it is is basically a modified snow code with a different texture file.

CG Apollos
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

#14

A few things to mention, to add onto Krit's tutorial:

1. For a single player map you can use a Solo.ini.

2. Don't go to the Eastern Everglades map, or others, just open up the INIZH.big and extract the Weather.ini. Put all of the contents of the Weather.ini into the Map.ini or Solo.ini.

3. You can also override the SnowEnabled = Yes in your map INI, with a script in World Builder which allows you to turn on and off the weather effect.

Coding for snow would look something like this:

Weather
SnowEnabled = Yes
SnowTexture = ExSnowFlake1.tga
SnowBoxDimensions = 200
SnowBoxDensity = 0.9
SnowFrequencyScaleX = 0.0533
SnowFrequencyScaleY = 0.0275
SnowAmplitude = 4.0
SnowVelocity = 2.5
SnowPointSize = 0.35
SnowMaxPointSize = 32.0
SnowMinPointSize = 1.0
SnowPointSprites = Yes
SnowQuadSize = 0.5
End

You can use EXSnowFlake.tga or EXSnowFlake1.tga for your snow texture, depending on how thick or deep you want your snowstorm to look.

If you want rain, simply change the texture to the raindrop, so your code would look something like this:

Weather
SnowEnabled = Yes
SnowTexture = EXRainDrop.tga
SnowBoxDimensions = 100
SnowBoxDensity = 1
SnowFrequencyScaleX = 1
SnowFrequencyScaleY = 1
SnowAmplitude = 0.1
SnowVelocity = 25.0
SnowPointSize = 0.3
SnowPointSprites = Yes
SnowQuadSize = 0.1
End

Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

#15

Hmm okay thanks for the tutorials, I'll give them a try :)

EDIT: Okay, I added snow, changed the textures a little bit, stuffed the supply piles into a smaller area and put some cash crates on the map. I still can't get the AI to do anything against me in Skirmish. Could someone please tell me what I need to do? 🙂 Thanks

Edited by user 19 years ago | Reason: Not specified

krit
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

#16

Go to
Edit > Edit Player List

Remove all players except (neutral). Press "Add Skirmish Players" and then "OK".

Now, make sure the perimeters and waypoints for the AI are set according to the following points.
> An "OuterPerimeter#", with "#" being the player number, around the area where the AI will build its base. Make sure it is large enough for a full sized base.
> An "InnerPerimeter#", with "#" being the player number, around the area where the AI will build its base INSIDE "OuterPerimeter#". The space inside this perimeter will be the main base buildings, the space between this and the outerperimeter will be where the AI will build its defense.
> A "CombatZone" that covers the areas not covered by the base perimeters. The AI will capture tech buildings in this area.
> The AI will attack along three labled waypoints, however, not all of them has to be placed for all sides. The waypoints will have to lead from outside the outer base perimeters into the inside of the base. The "#" in each waypoint lable represents the team the waypoint is leading to attack.
>> "CenterPath#" This will be the AI's main attack route where most of the attacks will be directed.
>> "Flank#" This is the second most used by the AI.
>> "BackDoor#" This is used the least but is the AI's choice for sneak attack and quick game start rushes.

With all of this implemented correctly, the AI should work.

Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

#17

OK thank you very much for everyone's help. I played against a computer opponent on the map today so I think it's ready 🙂

MicScoTho
78.75% (Friendly)
Administrator

19 years ago

#18

Thanks for the map submission Misacorp. It'll be reviewed shortly =)

Also, thanks Krit and AuroraAlphaHL2 -- I used the information your provided to make this page:
http://www.cncgeneralsworld.com/generals/zerohour/worldbuilder/tutorials/adding-weather-effects.aspx

Misacorp
98.75% (Exalted)
Captain Topic Starter

19 years ago

#19

I hope the Paths were still in the right order. I looked at another map and they were different than in mine, so I changed them. It does make sense the way I changed them to though (the version I submitted).

CenterPath1 leads to Player 1's base, right? If not then I'll have to change it back. If it wouldn't be like this then how would you put a Path for player 3 to get to player 1's base? CenterPath3_1? Nah, it has to be the first way 🙂

krit
100% (Exalted)
Commander in Chief

19 years ago

#20

The first way is the correct way. And I just noticed a small flaw in what I wrote up there. "CenterPath#" Should've just been "Center#", lol

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