So, i made a map for fun using the basic tutorial on here, and it lags constantly when playing. Also, the cliff i created to place turrets doesn't allow them to fire down so im not sure what to do whether it needs a redesign or theres some kinda trick to it. Be warned this was made in a few hours and i haven't added much detail yet so its not that great, i just want to solve these problems before putting more work in only to find out i've messed it up. I'd also like to know if my waypoint placement is correct, as im not sure. Thank you for any help :)

Map is attached.   The Fight.zip (45kb) downloaded 6 time(s).

Hello ARCY070,

You have some conflicting areas. Outer perimeter areas should go around the inner base areas. Base and CombatZone areas should not overlap. Pathways should start in the CombatZone and go into each base and be labeled using the Waypoint Path labels: textbox for each base. See image here .

Its worth noting that i designed this map for 6vs2 (6 AI and 2 Player) for me and my friend to play on LAN, if that makes any difference to your suggestion then i'd like to know. Other than that im so confused as to how it all works to be honest lol. I can do the terrain design easy but all this waypoint stuff makes my head hurt! Thanks for speedy reply 🙂

I'll fix it up for you and post back when it's done.

EDIT: Map Fixed and posted, then removed from post after author downloaded.

Wow! that'd be great thanks very much! 🙂

After playtesting the map for a few hours 2vs2 hard and then 2vs3 i soon realised this map owns! Great fun, thanks alot for your help Drumming 🙂 couldn't have done it without ya! Now all i need is a better pc so that 200 emperor overlords onscreen doesn't kill my pc (major lag throughout our games but they were still fun!). Thanks again. 🙂

I think you've got a great map setup and found it fun to test. Sure, when you've got eight players on the map it's going to lag but that's just the nature of having so many units going through that narrow passage. (Come on now, take your turn. No pushing.)

Work on your map details and write a good map description and we'll see about adding it to our download section. I'm sure many people would like to play it!

I didn't think it'd be worthy of adding to a downloads section! I'll have to do some more work on it then, add some more stuff and solve some bugs (a tank got stuck on a vertical wall at one point, also dozers climb walls when trying to go up ramps). I've also done a little bit of an update on the one you sent me, it now has a "desert" theme because it went better and i think makes the map look better overall. Also i don't know if this happened to you (we were against 3 tank generals on Hard) but units seem to sometimes gather on their side of the mountains away from the narrow passage, i dont remember ever seeing them move out of this spot so they may be getting stuck. Would this need fixing? Also what could be added to the map to make it more...Interesting? I always find it hard to fill my maps out with stuff without just making them look strange. Obviously also having an almost empty map is a nono because it just looks cheap. Is it a good idea to "break away" from the original idea of the map slightly and add real flanks/backdoors? Going against 3 hard armies for me and my friend on most maps is generally a real challenge, on this map it was fun but it wasn't that challenging due to the advantage we had. Only time me or him lost buildings was from planes, which obviously are easily dealt with by placing a few extra defenses. There doesn't seem to be any "variation" tactically, so you don't have a choice but to play the "defend passage while amassing power" route, is there a way to offer more choices and still keep the same principal? I guess im just looking for input, im quite excited though that my first ever map has turned out to be really fun. Thanks again for your immense help Drummin 🙂

I would imagine the tanks are getting stuck trying to get around the hill in the combat zone. Two things that would help is to paint impassible terrain in a nice straight line along the base of the cliff on the "AI side" of the map. Use (Ctrl i) to show impassible terrain and on your texture brush tool, check the box for painting in this mode. Another thing would be to move the CombatZone out of that passage and adjust the pathways into base one and two so that the AI players can find these waypoint paths without needing to go around a corner.

Unless you do some major changes to the center area, it's going to be a "Defend the pass" kind of game. I tell you... if you removed that hill and you and you friend played against six players, that would be a challenge. If you did any major change, I'd move the base waypoint lines around as where these lines enter the AI base is where they will build their defenses.

As far as adding interest to the map, what's most often overlooked is slight elevation changes. Use your mound tool with a good sized feather and set the amount to change elevation at 1. Use fairly quick movements to give a randomness to the elevation changes and feather things out. After doing this, you'll see high and low spots where you can vary your textures. Hey, dig a little hole add some water, trees and props for a oasis. Whatever looks good.

You can always send me the map directly at drummin(AT)cnclabs.com if you'd like me to look at something.

Thanks for the suggestions i'll look into it and see if i can't improve the map a little 🙂

I just wanted to say thanks for this. I had also created a 6vs2 map awhile back and had lag problems. I assumed that it had to do with the size of my map so I reduced it to half size and tried again. The lag took longer to happen, but was still bad. As a result I came to the forums tonight to ask what sizes are good for a 8 player map. It's great to know that it's not (necissarily) the map size. BTW the current version is 500 by 500.

so thanks again,
J

I think the real issue with the map I saw was the single narrow passage.

Here are some general thoughts.
"Does size matter?" Yes and no. Water is a huge culprit on a large scale, so if you don't need it remove it from the map. Remember, by default, when you make a new map, this water will also be in the border area of your map so keep your border small. Ten is all you need for a border in most cases.

I can't stress enough how overlapping areas and incorrectly labeled pathways can mess up a maps performance. The AI has orders to build their base using these labels as a guide to their orientation on the map and if they can't find these pathways, there will be problems. If bases are too small there will also be problems, so I would base my map on a minimum base size of 1000 feet for the inner perimeter, Plus the outer perimeter that goes around this and then still leave room for a combat zone.

One could say that on an eight-player map, with that many units you're bound to see lag. This is true, but the real resource consumer, are the units figuring out the terrain itself. Even with a huge number of units on a large map, if the terrain is flat and areas and pathways are correctly placed and labeled you wouldn't find too much lag. If they're all trying to get through a narrow passage, you're going to have lag.

One way to get a good look at how well you've placed your areas and to check a maps performance based on size alone would be to export your buildings (supply docks) and areas (and pathways) into a blank map. When the terrain is flat you can see very clearly if any areas are overlapping. To do this, go to Edit/ Scripts… and click the Export Script(s) button. Have all boxes checked (you don't really need "Sides") and select the "Export All Scripts" mode. Save this to a location you can find. Make a new map the same size and add the skirmish players. Then go to the script area and import your script file. This should add all areas, start positions and pathways along with any buildings you had. Remove the "Default Water" area and save this test map. If your areas and pathways are done well, you should have very little lag when running this test map.

If you find a significant difference in map performance, look for ways to improve the ways units get around on your real map. Feather out any rough terrain and click "Ctrl I" on your keyboard to show impassable terrain and paint a smooth transition edge between passable and impassable terrain so units don't get stuck in the hills. An overload of trees or other animated objects can also slow things down so only use what you need.

Sure, the bigger the map, the more it will lag, but if you make the map well you can minimize it. Going too small can crowd the players making it harder to build and get around. Find a balance for what you're trying to do. For example: You might consider spreading the SIX and the TWO player sides of the map farther apart and have more of a funneling terrain feature. As you're trying to get six players to use a narrow passage, this might help.