Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
cgf123` Offline
#1 Posted : Monday, November 7, 2011 8:23:59 PM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
What is this?
This is my alternative 'patch' for The Red Alert (TRA) mod for RA3, called TRA+. It essentially makes several balance changes and a few bugfixes to make the mod experience even more interesting and fun.

Why did you make it?
I personally adore this mod (in concept and approach especially), but after playing couple of matches with buddies, it wasn't long before I got slightly impatient with some of the gameplay issues it had! So I decided to cook up this modified version of it that we could have more fun with.

Does it require the original TRA? Does it delete, replace or modify my original TRA version?
Yes, it requires TRA 1.2, but it does not modify your original TRA installation in any way.

You may download TRA 1.2 here if you do not have it already:
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-red-alert/

How is it installed?
A simple installer is included. Install and start up TRA as you usually would.
Switching back to vanilla TRA (if you wish to do so) is slightly trickier, but instructions are provided in the Readme inside the archive.

Wait a minute; you're not on the mod team! How did you...
Sufficient experience with SAGE engine asset structures, hex-editing and tools created by the CNC3/RA3 modding community.

I do not mean to cause any offense to the mod creators, and infact I owe all credit to them. I hope you guys take it in positive light that someone liked your work so much that they decided to help refine it, and would greatly appreciate if your own official updates for this mod take some cues from this endeavour.

But this isn't quite like original Red Alert anymore!
TRA vanilla wasn't an exact carbon copy of Red Alert either! /sarcasm
RTS as a genre has certainly come a long way since 1995, and learning from past successes and failures is a huge part of moving it forward. In that regard, I personally feel it makes little sense to create an exact copy of an original without addressing some of its flaws.

The biggest 'flaw' in the original Red Alert (and also TRA to an extent) was arguably its relatively untapped strategic potential in its remarkably diverse array of units and powers, only to be eclipsed by its 'tankspammy' gameplay. TRA+ attempts to rectify this and open up more options for the player by making every unit feel meaningful and fun to use.
That said, care has also been taken to ensure some of the essence of Red Alert gameplay is retained such as the pivotal role of tanks or base-crawling.

Is this a final release?
Not quite; balancing a game to perfection is never a simple task. But this is just something I thought would be cool for the time-being.
Hoping to play-test it with people and accordingly make tweaks.

Download TRA+ HERE (updated 16th July '13):
https://dl.dropboxuserco.../91928006/TRA%2B_1.2.rar
Included in this archive:
* Installer
* Readme, containing the below change list + some gameplay tips


Change List:



Explanation/Reasoning for changes:




Enjoy, and looking forward to playing this with more people!

Edited by user Friday, October 11, 2013 11:01:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
Sponsor
incia Offline
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:44:53 AM(UTC)
incia
Commander in Chief
Joined: 5/17/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,602
Location: Sweden

So hey, do this replace the current version?

Can I delete what I have now and just download this instead or?
Wolfa Offline
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:55:29 AM(UTC)
Wolfa
Private
Joined: 10/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: South Africa

This is great! Just downloaded it and played a skirmish, it feels much more like RA95 with the faster pace, and now the Mammoth tanks are more feared which is nice, this is a must download for TRA fans, the previous "version" felt slow motion compared to this now!

Also, from me personally, thanks for TRA+ you made, according to me, a big improvement (take note, in game play!), however, or also, thanks for the original TRA team for making this mod in the first place, I feel compelled to mention this since it is TRA mod and without them we would not have TRA+ or - or whatever will be thought of next lol
I want to say one word to you, just one.... Red Alert!
Wolfa Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 3:59:54 AM(UTC)
Wolfa
Private
Joined: 10/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: South Africa

incia wrote:
So hey, do this replace the current version?

Can I delete what I have now and just download this instead or?


And btw, as he mentioned already, this does not replace the current version you have, so no need to delete it before installing this one, it will however direct your TRA.exe shortcut path to TRA+, but this can be corrected very easily in case you like to play the original TRA.
I want to say one word to you, just one.... Red Alert!
Johnny1984 Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 4:56:09 AM(UTC)
Johnny1984
Private
Joined: 11/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Germany

Yeah, thanks a lot to cgf123´. I hope you can continue improving TRA+ up to the maximum !

BTW: What is "TRA vanilla"Question

Edited by user Tuesday, November 8, 2011 5:02:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

CommieDog Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 8:16:13 AM(UTC)
CommieDog
Administrator
C&C Labs Staff: Labs Staff MemberThe Forgotten Staff: The Forgotten StaffRed Alert Staff: Red Alert Staff MemberAll Stars Staff: All Stars Staff
Joined: 8/3/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,080
United States

Thanks: 418 times
Was thanked: 185 time(s) in 129 post(s)
Johnny1984 wrote:
BTW: What is "TRA vanilla"Question

The official mod release.

CommieDog: Because someone has to do your dirty work for you
incia Offline
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 9:21:13 PM(UTC)
incia
Commander in Chief
Joined: 5/17/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,602
Location: Sweden

The guerrilla AI still sent waves of grenadiers to attack my garrisons and actually successfully even cleared them. Seem to be a 50 % chance of clearing a building. First grenade cleared the first building, then 2 grenades cleared the second building.

And chronosphere can't be used offensively anymore, don't know what to say about this one, I liked chronosphering enemy MCV's into water...
cgf123` Offline
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 8, 2011 9:24:51 PM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
ill look into the grenade issue

it was possible to chrono enemy units? i didnt know that.
but not sure if thats ok lol... wasnt possible in ra1, and chrono is already kinda better than curtain tbh
'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
Wolfa Offline
#9 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:36:29 AM(UTC)
Wolfa
Private
Joined: 10/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: South Africa

I experienced a problem, Soviet Submarines seems to be indestructible, I was playing as the Allies, using Gun boats, Destroyers and the now addition of Cruisers being able to shoot water targets (that now goes for the Missile sub also), and not one of my ships could damage the subs, while the submarines just took their time in destroying my fleet.

Image:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1483/supersub.jpg

As you can see my ships are firing at the "new invincible submarines", if you look closely there are some sparks coming of the submarine which indicates that the ships have been firing at it prior to the screen shot being taken, but with no fall in the submarines health. Does anyone else experience this or is it just a random bug that occurred for that one match? Also had trouble healing one of my Migs once, it landed on the airfield but refused to be repaired, I made it took off and land a few times and suddenly it got repaired.

So just a few bugs here and there, I'm posting these things so that it can be looked into if a patch are to follow. Otherwise good work!

Edited by user Thursday, November 10, 2011 4:37:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I want to say one word to you, just one.... Red Alert!
cgf123` Offline
#10 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:46:28 AM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
dunno if you read the change notes but ships (and missile subs) not damaging subs with their 'primary weapons' is actually intended!
ships can now only damage subs with their shorter-range depth charges... so just move close to the subs and you should be able to kill the subs.
(although i suppose it would be more convenient if ships got into range automatically, its something i havent figured out how to do yet)

reason i did it this way was to demarcate the roles of destroyers, gunboats and subs better -
the gunboat is now pretty much an anti-naval unit (2 gunboats that get into depth-charge range should fare pretty well vs 1 sub, that costs about the same) that isnt great vs enemies on land/air...
whereas the destroyer is more versatile with better range and firepower vs ground/air targets, and while it has some defense vs subs - its not cost-effective!

that said, i do feel the destroyer could currently use a slight further damage boost vs air units only
==========
in RA1 ships' default anti-sub attack was their depth charges -- but forcefiring allowed you to 'abuse' their primary weapons too... this particularly broke the balance with cruisers because they could beat their intended counters (subs) with impunity by forcefiring.

so in essence, the approach i took here tries to simulate the 'ideal' RA1 ship vs sub interactions.
======
the Mig healing... yeah, that happens sometimes with all air units (in TRA vanilla too).

not sure if i can fix it (since the way im doing the changes is practically akin to painting a self-portrait blind-folded), but ill look into it

Edited by user Thursday, November 10, 2011 6:48:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
Wolfa Offline
#11 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2011 11:15:03 AM(UTC)
Wolfa
Private
Joined: 10/6/2011(UTC)
Posts: 12
Location: South Africa

Ok I see, that's all nice and everything, the idea of it, but there, to me, is 2 draw backs to this, firstly, I played as Russia and I beat 2 entire enemy navy's that consisted of at least 20 Destroyers, a few Gunboats, and 10 or so Cruisers, with my 10 submarines, and I gained conquest over the oceans without a scratch, it felt like cheating, since the AI does not know that it has to now use the depth charges instead. The second draw back to this is a practical one, you now have to micro manage your fleet (if your Allies), and are unable to use attack move or anything like that, so apart from having to micro manage, you take on more damage also as your ships have to move close to the enemy submarines now, so the enemy has a time span in which to shoot you, which makes it unfair. In the original TRA I found that submarines were already a menace, you had to have almost twice as many ships as there are enemy submarines to win, so now it becomes even more difficult for the Allied player in the water, plus, and I have not tested how depth charges react in game in TRA+, but I know in TRA it was sometimes very hard to hit an enemy sub as the depth charges took a while to hit and explode.

All in all, to give ships better classes for different situations, and a more (well, all out more) importance on using depth charges instead of strangely shooting a submarine with rockets, sounds like an excellent idea I must say, but in practice it tips the balance off too much, plus the AI don't know how to work with it. So I hope you would reconsider this addition to the change list in a patch, but if not, TRA+ is still great and I love playing it!

Just a note, I have not sufficiently tested how this mechanism works (in the sense of how it plays), so I'll be around to say if I changed my mind about it, but the AI not knowing how to use it is for sure.
I want to say one word to you, just one.... Red Alert!
cgf123` Offline
#12 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:22:53 PM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
yeah.. basically the issue is the ships just need to get into range automatically for depth charges
'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
cgf123` Offline
#13 Posted : Sunday, November 13, 2011 5:57:03 PM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
now updated with a few changes, including:

- Removed the ships/depth-charge vs Subs change introduced in the previous TRA+ version, so ships can shoot subs with their primary weapons again.

- Destroyers now deal slightly more damage vs aircraft.

- Further reduced cooldown on Iron Curtain/Chronosphere, and increased their target area.

- Medics now provide a slight rate-of-fire bonus to nearby infantry.
(think of it as a slight morale boost... theres really no other way to make medics worthwhile in a game where infantry are mostly killed in 1-2 hits by most stuff!)

- Minelaying cooldown time reduced further.

- Dogs attacking time reduced slightly.
(making them suck a little bit less)

- Grenadiers no longer clear garrisons.
(as intended)

- Aircraft repair should now be more reliable.

Edited by user Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:03:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
Guest
#14 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 1:21:46 AM(UTC)
Guest

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Message was deleted by a User. | Reason: Not specified
Johnny1984 Offline
#15 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 1:24:18 AM(UTC)
Johnny1984
Private
Joined: 11/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Germany

**CONGRATULATIONS ** This sounds amazing !

-> Keep on manufacturing such great things <-

Just THANKS A LOT to you !

Cool

Edited by user Monday, November 14, 2011 1:28:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Johnny1984 Offline
#16 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 2:27:23 AM(UTC)
Johnny1984
Private
Joined: 11/7/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Germany

Do the naval units (especially ships)still have the secondary fire mode (barrel dump) ?
zocom7 Offline
#17 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 9:18:07 AM(UTC)
zocom7
Private
Joined: 5/9/2011(UTC)
Posts: 23

I highly doubt if Bibpaws will accept this. This is the first time I see someone modding a mod instead of an original C&C game and release a patch as unofficial.

Don't tell me you got the source code for this mod from the dev team, or else you are using Lauren's tools to see and edit the coding files of this mod as no one else in the C&C modding community can do. Bibber's tools of seeing the codings of any CNC game or mod were not implemented yet.

Great work but quite ingenious.
Byamba Offline
#18 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 11:51:05 AM(UTC)
Byamba
Major
Joined: 4/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 137

Yea I also wonder how you actually are able to see and edit the xml codes from the compiled mod files.
Bibber Offline
#19 Posted : Monday, November 14, 2011 1:01:23 PM(UTC)
Bibber
Private
Joined: 10/1/2010(UTC)
Posts: 30
Germany

Was thanked: 7 time(s) in 4 post(s)
Dudes, he hex edited most of the stuff.
cgf123` Offline
#20 Posted : Monday, November 21, 2011 6:51:49 PM(UTC)
cgf123`
Captain
Joined: 10/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 72

Was thanked: 3 time(s) in 3 post(s)
a little update again...
- even smoother economy
- spy plane no longer reveals permanently
- even cheaper dogs, spy, thief
- chronotank slightly cheaper
- mad tank now faster
- slightly more health for submarines
- slightly more ammo for hinds
- couple of other balance tweaks to other units

again, if anyone wants to give this a spin online with me, let me know

Edited by user Monday, November 21, 2011 6:52:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

'The Red Alert' mod with more refined balancing+bugfixes:
Check it out!
Users browsing this topic
Guest
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 2.351 seconds.