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Offline Gameanater  
#121 Posted : Sunday, January 4, 2015 4:47:16 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: UTD^Force Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
Okay, I tried going up against a "Hard" Tank General AI and spamming Rawkitvee's... And no matter what way I tried to hit-and-run with them, they got swashed every time.

So either I REALLY suck, or Rawkitvee's aren't overpowered.


I choose that you REALLY suck, jk xD
When I play multiplayer, we make the army be random, but if I take USA, I build a rockvee. And, mostly you win with that, although it's easy to destroy it without sending crusaders.
So, I send 4-6 crusaders to be in the front, in the middle, I add 3 rockvees, that should be enough to defeat someone.


We need to play. Seriously.

Problem is that both my modded and un-modded copies think my email is invalid, even though it isn't. Sad
Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.
Offline Annihilationzh  
#122 Posted : Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:00:43 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
We need to play. Seriously.

Problem is that both my modded and un-modded copies think my email is invalid, even though it isn't. Sad

Are you trying to play on generals online? Because if you are, you can't do that any more. I remember reading that Generals online was shut down some time ago.
If you need help, post in the forum. You'll get help a lot faster than if you send me a PM.

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Offline Gameanater  
#123 Posted : Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:06:02 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Annihilationzh Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
We need to play. Seriously.

Problem is that both my modded and un-modded copies think my email is invalid, even though it isn't. Sad

Are you trying to play on generals online? Because if you are, you can't do that any more. I remember reading that Generals online was shut down some time ago.


I remembered, I thought I'd be able to...

*Facepalm* GAMEANATER YOU IDIOT. Why were thinking you could set up to Gameranger or something like that?!
Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.
Offline SUPER-G  
#124 Posted : Sunday, January 4, 2015 7:12:21 PM(UTC)
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Quote:
Are you trying to play on generals online? Because if you are, you can't do that any more. I remember reading that Generals online was shut down some time ago.


http://cnc-online.net/

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Offline Hell Warrior  
#125 Posted : Monday, January 5, 2015 7:35:09 AM(UTC)
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Or for online playing you could download hamatchi, the only problem is that using it for free only allows 5 players to play against each other. It allows you to organize LAN network games and has relatively low lag.
Feel free (although you probably don't want to) to view my short vidoes displayig the awesomeness of each of the 9 zero hour generals!) Like comment and share if you like them! (I doubt it heheheh)
Airforce: http://youtu.be/0f-oucFRGLo
Laser: http://youtu.be/DvXtqaZfihs
Superweapon: http://youtu.be/BR4OAVuh968
More to come soon? :)
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Offline Commander Ned  
#126 Posted : Monday, January 5, 2015 7:38:02 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Annihilationzh Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Okay, I tried going up against a "Hard" Tank General AI and spamming Rawkitvee's... And no matter what way I tried to hit-and-run with them, they got swashed every time.

So either I REALLY suck, or Rawkitvee's aren't overpowered.

Micromanagement isn't easy. I struggle to use rockvees properly as well, but pros are in a whole league of their own.

To prove my point of how many rocket troops you'll see in competitions, here's a tournament video:



Note, this is a fan-made patch to try and balance the generals. This particular video doesn't contain any tanks for obvious reasons, but you will see a couple of tanks in pro games. The main army is almost always going to be RPG soldiers and gatts/quads.


Thanks for recommending that video! It was really awesome! And to say the least, I learned quite a few things from it.

And that Hamachi thing Hell Warrior is talking about, it's really good, trust me I have it! So try downloading it and maybe sometime we can play one another ;).
Hey! Its Commander Ned here! Check out my videos on YouTube:

USA Gameplay:
!
China Gameplay:


Also check out my topic on C&C Labs Forums » C&C Generals Discussion » C&C Generals and Zero Hour:

Create your Unit!

I wanna get as many responses as possible!


Offline Annihilationzh  
#127 Posted : Monday, January 5, 2015 5:31:53 PM(UTC)
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Some of these may be a bit silly, but I thought it would be fun to mix up the generals a bit. These generals are far from complete, just a general idea...

::USA Toxins general::
Free Toxin grenades for ranger
Flash bangs are unavailable
Toxic ambulance (Dr Thrax now actually makes house calls)
Toxic Tomahawk
Toxic TOW
Anthrax Gamma and Toxin Shells at Strategy Center.
Stealth fighter drops a toxin bomb
All infantry and vehicles cost an additional $25

::USA Tank general::
Titan Crusader Tank is substantially stronger and larger than other tanks.
Paladin is $1500 and has slow firing EMP shells.
Laser tank is a long range tank good against infantry and humvees.
Microwave tank is cheaper.
Autoloader at strategy center.
Humvees and Tomahawk are not available.
All Infantry cost $50 more.

::USA Demolitions general::
Tomahawk is high explosive and cheaper
Particle cannon replaced by ICBM
Sentry drones are cheap suicide units
Sentry drone gun not available

::China Airforce General::
Migs are faster, more agile, reload much faster and have 3 rapid fire missiles
Helixes cost $2500, but start with all three addons at once
Nuke mig available (no upgrade required) requires propaganda center
Propaganda Center requires war factory OR airfield
Carpet bomber drops twice as many bombs

::China Superweapons General::
All vehicles cost $100 more
All infantry cost $50 more
Inferno cannons and nuke cannons are not available
Fortified Bunker available
Cannon Bunker is available, which is a 2 slot bunker with a built in nuke cannon
Mines are half price
Gattling cannons are $900 and require 2 power
Nuclear missile costs $4000, has a 5 minute timer and does 1000 damage 7 times (up from one hit of 3500).
Internet center reduced to $1500

::China Stealth General::
Super Lotus and Super Hacker available
Listening outpost is always stealthed and has 3 slots
Migs start with stealth
GPS Scrambler available at rank 3 and it affects buildings
Pathfinder available
All tanks cost an extra $50
The overlord costs an extra $200

::GLA Infantry General::
Rebels cost $100 and start with stealth
Toxin Rebels are also available
RPG troopers start with veterancy
Angry mobs cost $600 instead of $800
Hijackers are always stealthed
Saboteurs cost $500
Jarmen Kell can plant bombs
Palace costs $2000 and has 6 slots
Scorpion isn't available
Marauder costs $1000 (+200)
Quad cannon costs $800 (+50)
Toxin tractor not available
Battle bus production time is halved

::GLA Nuke General::
The Dirty Nuke power is available
Bomb truck, Terrorist, Scud launcher and scud storm all wield small but deadly nuclear warheads
All infantry cost +50 and vehicles cost +100
Terrorists cost $500 to make up for their substantially larger explosions
Scorpion rockets are more powerful and leave radiation pool

::GLA Laser General::
Rebels, technicals, RPG troopers and scorpions wield lasers
Marauder and scorpion rocket aren't avaiable
Quad cannons have PDL
Workers cost $300
Black Markets cost $3000
Angry mobs are not available

::USA Communist General::

Crusaders are produced in pairs for $1200
No flash bangs, Rangers are $150
Humvees only have 2 slots and cost $700
Tomahawks don't home in on their target and cost $1000
Avengers have no PDL and cost $1000
Raptors have 1/2 health and cost $1000

::China Sneaky General::

Cargo truck armed with nuke is available; requires Propaganda Center
Camouflage is available
Black Lotus costs $1000 and has a built limit of 2
Red Guard are not produced in pairs ($150)
Tanks have toxin shells
Dragon tanks have the option to explode, causing a lot of damage and then a firestorm
Super hacker available and they can steal cash from supply centers

::GLA Technology General::
All vehicles start fully scrapped and all of these upgraded vehicles cost an extra $200
General can't see or pickup scrap
Rebels have superior weapons (triple clip size) and cost $200
Terrorists are not available
Composite armour replaces toxin shells
If you need help, post in the forum. You'll get help a lot faster than if you send me a PM.

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Offline Gameanater  
#128 Posted : Monday, January 5, 2015 7:28:47 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Annihilationzh Go to Quoted Post
Some of these may be a bit silly, but I thought it would be fun to mix up the generals a bit. These generals are far from complete, just a general idea...
[GENERALS]


Best idea I've ever heard. This needs to become a mod.
Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.
Offline Commander Ned  
#129 Posted : Wednesday, January 7, 2015 8:24:58 AM(UTC)
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Amazing idea! Seriously, these generals would be extremely fun and interesting to play with. The possibilities are infinite! This is what this topic is all about, creating generals that make you excited about the game. Someone really has to make a mod for them. How about you have a go yourself Annihilationzh! It would rock!
Hey! Its Commander Ned here! Check out my videos on YouTube:

USA Gameplay:
!
China Gameplay:


Also check out my topic on C&C Labs Forums » C&C Generals Discussion » C&C Generals and Zero Hour:

Create your Unit!

I wanna get as many responses as possible!


Offline Commander Ned  
#130 Posted : Friday, January 9, 2015 7:09:56 AM(UTC)
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Buhio Xian
China
Propaganda General

Pro:
Propaganda Center costs 200 less.
Starts with Capture Upgrade.
Starts with Subliminal Messaging.
Speaker Towers cost 100 less.
Has an upgrade called Media that increases range and healing ability of Speaker Towers by 25%.
Black Lotus captures in half the time.
Internet Center costs 100 less.

Con:
No Gattling Tank.
No Dragon Tank.
War Factory costs 100 more.
Hackers cost 100 more.
Every tank unit costs 50 more.
MiGs cost 100 more.
Nuclear Bomb leaves less radiation.
Hey! Its Commander Ned here! Check out my videos on YouTube:

USA Gameplay:
!
China Gameplay:


Also check out my topic on C&C Labs Forums » C&C Generals Discussion » C&C Generals and Zero Hour:

Create your Unit!

I wanna get as many responses as possible!


Offline Gameanater  
#131 Posted : Friday, January 9, 2015 7:58:35 PM(UTC)
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Hmm... He doesn't seem to really much going for him. Then again, "Infantry" General is a pretty barebones general, but... Ehh...
He could use work.
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Offline Annihilationzh  
#132 Posted : Friday, January 9, 2015 8:45:54 PM(UTC)
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That Propaganda general would be utterly helpless against any general in 1.4. The dragon tank is a very important rush unit for fire walling supplies early game, and the gattling tank is essential against humvees and airforce general. Tank hunters are nearly helpless against air units.

Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... He doesn't seem to really much going for him. Then again, "Infantry" General is a pretty barebones general, but... Ehh...
He could use work.

The top 3 generals in ZH 1.4 are Airforce, Toxin and Infantry.

Infantry would be in 2nd if it wasn't for Toxin general having a massive advantage over him.
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Offline Hell Warrior  
#133 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2015 10:38:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Annihilationzh Go to Quoted Post
That Propaganda general would be utterly helpless against any general in 1.4. The dragon tank is a very important rush unit for fire walling supplies early game, and the gattling tank is essential against humvees and airforce general. Tank hunters are nearly helpless against air units.

Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... He doesn't seem to really much going for him. Then again, "Infantry" General is a pretty barebones general, but... Ehh...
He could use work.

The top 3 generals in ZH 1.4 are Airforce, Toxin and Infantry.

Infantry would be in 2nd if it wasn't for Toxin general having a massive advantage over him.


In my opinion, if that list is valid, then demolitions general must clearly be ahead of toxins. Really, honestly tell me, on vanilla GLA, how many times do you activate toxins relative to demolitions mode? The bomb truck, which upgrade do you prioritize, anthrax or demolitions? Toxin general rebel ambush is technically like an ambush of toxin tractors, which is utterly useless against buildings. Demolitions general can rebel ambush causing massive damage. Both scud storms are equal, both being capable of SW destruction. In the early game, thrax might hold the advantage with toxin rebels, however once the palace is brought into play, demolitions will pwn thrax.

I do love airoforce, but by your mentioned logic of toxic superseding infantry, must not infantry be ahead of airforce? It is like a combat triangle. They are, if anything, tied on top.

Yup, prop general stinks.
Feel free (although you probably don't want to) to view my short vidoes displayig the awesomeness of each of the 9 zero hour generals!) Like comment and share if you like them! (I doubt it heheheh)
Airforce: http://youtu.be/0f-oucFRGLo
Laser: http://youtu.be/DvXtqaZfihs
Superweapon: http://youtu.be/BR4OAVuh968
More to come soon? :)
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thanks 1 user thanked Hell Warrior for this useful post.
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Offline Gameanater  
#134 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2015 4:24:54 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Annihilationzh Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gameanater Go to Quoted Post
Hmm... He doesn't seem to really much going for him. Then again, "Infantry" General is a pretty barebones general, but... Ehh...
He could use work.

The top 3 generals in ZH 1.4 are Airforce, Toxin and Infantry.

Infantry would be in 2nd if it wasn't for Toxin general having a massive advantage over him.


How does Demolitions not end up on that list?

Or for that matter, why is Fai on there anyway? I need more infomation to see why he's on the top 3 generals lists when most of what he boasts is a Vet Black Lotus, and Gattling Red Guards, and literally no new units outside of existing units being changed slightly. Like seriously, why does the INFANTRY general only have 5 infantry to use? And where's his snipers? Snipers are infantrymen, right?

On top of that, several of China's best are missing from his force,

(I'm not trying to mean. Smile )



While I'm at it, here's my opinion on the Airforce gen.

He's overly reliant upon a single unit type, and at that they're both overpowered and underpowered at the same time.

Overpowered in the sense that fellow USA's Patriots are practically worthless against his aircraft, but underpowered in the sense that Avengers and bullets will shred his aircraft to paper-thin pieces. He can still use Rawkitvees but they're more expensive. He requires a much stronger economy to use effectively then a standard USA.

He's better then the Tank general at least, who's completely worthless going up against Laser and SupW.

Edited by user Saturday, January 10, 2015 4:44:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed Quote tags

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Offline Annihilationzh  
#135 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2015 4:33:12 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hell warrior Go to Quoted Post
In my opinion, if that list is valid, then demolitions general must clearly be ahead of toxins.

For some bizarre reason, Toxin general has a 25% damage boost to RPG troopers with anthrax gamma, and again for some bizarre reason, that same upgrade gives their missiles double speed and double fuel, which makes them deadly against air units. This leaves every other GLA at a severe disadvantage.

Quote:
Really, honestly tell me, on vanilla GLA, how many times do you activate toxins relative to demolitions mode? The bomb truck, which upgrade do you prioritize, anthrax or demolitions? The bomb truck, which upgrade do you prioritize, anthrax or demolitions?

Neither. They're both a waste of money. Dr Thrax doesn't use his scud launcher, nor his needlessly expensive demo trap. No GLA uses their scud launcher much because the rocket buggy is so much better at most tasks. Units and buildings that are a complete waste of money don't get used in competitions.

You seem to think that pros will waste money all the time. You can't base your idea of balancing on AI games and noob games.

Quote:
Toxin general rebel ambush is technically like an ambush of toxin tractors, which is utterly useless against buildings. Demolitions general can rebel ambush causing massive damage.

Toxin's rebel ambush is notorious for being able to flatten an army. They laugh at overlords. In the fan patches, most vehicles were given resistance to toxins just to weaken Dr Thrax's toxin networks and rebel ambush. Demo's rebel ambush is superior, but it requires a late game upgrade before it has any power.

Quote:
however once the palace is brought into play, demolitions will pwn thrax.

Based on what? Do you think a rebel ambush is going to stop Dr Thrax by itself? Perhaps you think a toxin player is stupid enough to let his army near a bomb truck? Demolitions general only has a couple of useful units and upgrades. Like Dr Thrax, many of his upgrades are applied to useless units.

Quote:
I do love airoforce, but by your mentioned logic of toxic superseding infantry, must not infantry be ahead of airforce? It is like a combat triangle. They are, if anything, tied on top.

Airforce is ahead of infantry general because of flash bangs, pathfinders, humvees and his overpowered airforce. Airforce has a slight disadvantage early game, but the minute he gets pathfinders it's game over for infantry general. King Raptors flatten infantry general's vehicles and even kill the infantry afterwards. Infantry general's only hope is to evacuate the vehicles, which is useless once pathfinders are on the field.

EDIT: Infantry general's only hope at that point is to tech up (nothing I mentioned before requires a strat/prop center) and get his expensive ECM tanks on the field, which are the bane of airforce general.

The most overpowered feature of airforce general is his endless generals powers. Carpet bomb, spectre and A10 can wipe out an opponent by themselves.

Edited by user Saturday, January 10, 2015 5:12:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Annihilationzh  
#136 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2015 7:21:46 PM(UTC)
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Sorry, I completely missed your post Gameanater because you posted at the same time as me.

Quote:
Or for that matter, why is Fai on there anyway? I need more infomation to see why he's on the top 3 generals lists when most of what he boasts is a Vet Black Lotus, and Gattling Red Guards

Early game, his superior tank hunters give him an advantage. There are several glitches around infantry's tank hunters that make them stronger than they seem. E.G. they have a permanent 25% attack rate boost from the bugged nationalism upgrade that Fai gets for free. Infantry is also quite versatile; his infantry can fight on foot to avoid missiles, or in an attack outpost to defend against quads/gatts, and they can switch between these two in the middle of a battle.

Late game, the ease of running over hackers with a technical/humvee is one of the greatest weaknesses of China. China would normally have to choose between the expensive internet center and risking an enemy instantly killing their entire economy with a technical. Infantry has a counter to this, his stealth hackers are much harder to find and kill, and even if they are found, they've often provided more money because of their starting veterancy. They can even defend the base in emergencies using their vehicle hack.

Quote:
and literally no new units outside of existing units being changed slightly.

Can you explain this? The King raptor is just an upgraded Raptor. The emperor is just an upgraded overlord. Heck, the minigunner is a gattling tank fused with a red guard, which is similar to the toxin rebel being a toxin tractor fused with a rebel. Even his hackers are part Lotus.

Quote:
He's overly reliant upon a single unit type, and at that they're both overpowered and underpowered at the same time.

He really isn't. That's the problem with airforce general. Early game he uses rockvees or combat chinooks, and can even use his regular Chinooks to defend against enemy rockvees. Mid game he builds his airfield, late game he flattens everything with his carpet bomber and stealth comanches. Airforce is absurdly versatile.

Edited by user Saturday, January 10, 2015 7:29:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline SUPER-G  
#137 Posted : Saturday, January 10, 2015 11:18:54 PM(UTC)
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Anni, every time you talk about the strategies that pros use in-game i get less and less interested in playing online because i feel like i'll get obliterated by a squad of rocketvees or something else OP before i even build a strategy center, lmao.

Maybe it's time for me to stop playing the Ai on medium difficulty for once.
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Offline Annihilationzh  
#138 Posted : Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:38:37 AM(UTC)
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I'm similar. I know the theory, but I can't pull it off to save my life. Best I can do is AODs. Rockvees are stupidly hard to use. I've watched countless pro replays and I've seen them screw it up royally on occasion. These days, the most fun is seeing someone manage to pull off a victory using Paladins.

I'd imagine you'd be able to get your strategy centre up. The problem is, you won't have any supplies, and your opponent will have an army on the way. That's why the strategy centre is specifically late game. If you build them too early, you die. If you build them too late, you run out of supplies.
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Offline Gameanater  
#139 Posted : Sunday, January 11, 2015 3:43:42 PM(UTC)
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OH COME ON! I spend 15 minutes typiong a reply and lose it after accidently hitting backspace without being in the middle of typing in this box? Aaaagh!
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Offline Gameanater  
#140 Posted : Sunday, January 11, 2015 4:21:23 PM(UTC)
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Quote:

Sorry, I completely missed your post Gameanater because you posted at the same time as me.

That's okay, I'm used to being ingored. Tongue

Quote:

Early game, his superior tank hunters give him an advantage. There are several glitches around infantry's tank hunters that make them stronger than they seem. E.G. they have a permanent 25% attack rate boost from the bugged nationalism upgrade that Fai gets for free. Infantry is also quite versatile; his infantry can fight on foot to avoid missiles, or in an attack outpost to defend against quads/gatts, and they can switch between these two in the middle of a battle.

Wow! I didn't even notice the firing rate bug, that's fascinating!

Quote:
Late game, the ease of running over hackers with a technical/humvee is one of the greatest weaknesses of China. China would normally have to choose between the expensive internet center and risking an enemy instantly killing their entire economy with a technical. Infantry has a counter to this, his stealth hackers are much harder to find and kill, and even if they are found, they've often provided more money because of their starting veterancy. They can even defend the base in emergencies using their vehicle hack.


Actually, I agree with you here. Cool


Quote:

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and literally no new units outside of existing units being changed slightly.


Can you explain this? The King raptor is just an upgraded Raptor. The emperor is just an upgraded overlord. Heck, the minigunner is a gattling tank fused with a red guard, which is similar to the toxin rebel being a toxin tractor fused with a rebel. Even his hackers are part Lotus.

Crap. i think when I was writing that my definition of "new" was skewed slightly.

Looking back at it, I THINK this is what I meant to say:
Fai kind of has the least new STUFF going for him. A large amount of China's vehicle force is gone for him (which makes sense), with one or two improved versions of a few transporting vehicles. But all he has for his Infantry, which you would THINK would be bigger and more diverse than a standard China gen, is beefed-up versions of existing standard China infantry, which isn't as changed as I would expect. I mean, where's a Pathfinder equivalent? Why can't "Super" Lotus defend herself? Why are Mini-Gunners only trained one at a time and take just a long as to train as two Red Guards if I'm only building one at a time? Can't he at least get a couple more interesting new infantrymen, isn't he suppost to be an INFANTRY general? Where's his sniping ability, again? lol


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He's overly reliant upon a single unit type, and at that they're both overpowered and underpowered at the same time.


He really isn't. That's the problem with airforce general. Early game he uses rockvees or combat chinooks, and can even use his regular Chinooks to defend against enemy rockvees. Mid game he builds his airfield, late game he flattens everything with his carpet bomber and stealth comanches. Airforce is absurdly versatile.

Okay, this is kind of against my argument I guess, about being overpowered and underpowered at the same time, but you CAN have the Carpet Bomber earlier in-game because of the Strategy Center and level 1 General's Ability thing.

Anyway...
Aren't his Rawkitvees more expensive to make? IIRC, both his Infantry and vehicles are more expensive, so it'd be a little harder to spam them without a stronger economy backbone, which he definitely has to have because his main force, airforce, is still quite expensive even with cost reduction to his aircraft. Comanche spam requires a LOTTA cash to make!

He also lacks any tanks (unless you're actually counting Microwave Tanks). (He WAS going to get them, at twice the price of a regular General, but with a good economy that would make him definitely overpowered.), so good-bye Crusaders and Paladins and hello low-HP and more expensive Rawkitvees and more expensive Avengers.

Besides this, his aircraft is still both overpowered, but pretty costly to use against someone who knows how to counter aircraft. King Raptors have little hope against a few Avengers, Combat/Chinooks are shredded by bullets from Quads or Gattlings at the lasers from Avengers/Laser Patriots, not to mention that against a SupW general, the missile defense will help but at some point ONE missile will at least get through and instantly kill the aircraft (one shot from EMP equals instant death for non-cargo planes).


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and can even use his regular Chinooks to defend against enemy rockvees.

How so? I mean, yes, the laser defense helps against the missiles, but a single Rawkitvee loaded with the full 5 Missile Defenders easily gets through one AirF Chinook without too much trouble, which is made easier with more Rawkitvees. And the TOW Missile just adds one more thing for the laser defense to handle (I am aware that a TOW Missile alone is completely worthless against any laser-defensed aircraft.
Any old friends still on here can add me on discord @jcdenton2187. I'm far more likely to respond there.
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